Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby natman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:40 pm

bn2bnude wrote:
natman wrote:I do not know of any such verse. Can you find it for us?

Depending on how your read it, possibly Rom 2:12-16. I also thought I remembered something in Galatians or Ephesians.



I read those verses to say that regardless of whether one is overtly aware of the Law, we will all be judged according to the same law. It goes on to say that those who do the things of the Law even though they have never been exposed to the Law show that the Law is written in their hearts.
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby dby » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:33 pm

And Jeremiah 31:31 indicates that the coming of the New Covenant is when the Law is written on the hearts of all. Of course, it also says that everyone will know Him at that point, so there will be no more need of missionaries and witnessing. When does that New Covenant arrive?
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby natman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:07 pm

dby wrote:And Jeremiah 31:31 indicates that the coming of the New Covenant is when the Law is written on the hearts of all. Of course, it also says that everyone will know Him at that point, so there will be no more need of missionaries and witnessing. When does that New Covenant arrive?


Well, Jer 31:31 speaks exclusively to "God's people, Israel", which, according to Romans 9:6-8, are not the "descendents" of Abraham, but the "Children of the Promise", those who have placed their faith and trust in God's Messiah.

However, even if "everyone" were to KNOW God, there would still be a need for missionaries and witnessing, for even Satan knows God... and trembles. It is not sufficient to merely "know" God. We must also place all of our faith and trust in Him and His promised Messiah, Christ Jesus.
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby dby » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:30 pm

So when no longer will each person say "Know the Lord" it is only an intellectual knowledge and not a heart relationship?
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby natman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:07 pm

dby wrote:So when no longer will each person say "Know the Lord" it is only an intellectual knowledge and not a heart relationship?


Jer 31:31-34
31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD.

Each person who is a member of "God's people", not the general populus.
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby dby » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:27 pm

So those who are not of the Commonwealth of Israel should not be considered to be my neighbor? And "love your neighbor as yourself" then only applies to the Commonwealth and not to the unbeliever?
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby natman » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:17 am

dby wrote:So those who are not of the Commonwealth of Israel should not be considered to be my neighbor? And "love your neighbor as yourself" then only applies to the Commonwealth and not to the unbeliever?


How do you get THAT out of what I have said?

We are ALL "neighbors", regardless of our membership of the "Commonwealth of Israel" (I assume you are referring to "believers"), and we are ALL "supposed" to love our neighbors as ourselves. However, "believers" are especially called to love our neighbors by not only clothing, feeding and housing those in need, but by witnessing and spreading the saving Gospel of Christ.
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby jochanaan » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:40 am

natman wrote:...However, even if "everyone" were to KNOW God, there would still be a need for missionaries and witnessing, for even Satan knows God... and trembles. It is not sufficient to merely "know" God. We must also place all of our faith and trust in Him and His promised Messiah, Christ Jesus.
As with "belief," it depends on what kind of knowledge we're talking about. There's the mere knowledge that God exists--and there's the heart-knowledge that we develop from personally interacting with Him. Missionaries can give the first, but only a personal life-change can open our minds to the second.
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Re: Does Judgement Account for Comprehension

Postby dby » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:47 am

The passage says "no longer shall each man say to his neighbor, Know the Lord...". You had indicated that there would still be a need for missionaries and witnessing. From that I concluded that it must mean that the "neighbor" is only the Believer. Alternatively, we could conclude that there will be no need for missionaries and witnessing because everyone will literally "know" (in the faith sense).
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