Variations on "Born Again"

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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby ezduzit » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:16 pm

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:First ........ I do not believe you can lose your salvation , my position is Once Saved Always Saved......... to deny that some have a profession with out possession is a fact ie Lord, Lord ! (Matt.7:22)

Secondly ..... If you could lose your salvation , it would make Christ and his word a lie ie everlasting would not mean / be everlasting , eternal would not be / mean eternal (Jn.3:15, 16) thus "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Ez


I am curious how your theology of Salvation fits together. It appears to be similar to what I grew up with but quite different from where God has me believing now.


Not sure what the question is, if it is a question? Question about salvation or the loss of salvation ?
Ez
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:20 pm

ezduzit wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:First ........ I do not believe you can lose your salvation , my position is Once Saved Always Saved......... to deny that some have a profession with out possession is a fact ie Lord, Lord ! (Matt.7:22)

Secondly ..... If you could lose your salvation , it would make Christ and his word a lie ie everlasting would not mean / be everlasting , eternal would not be / mean eternal (Jn.3:15, 16) thus "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Ez


I am curious how your theology of Salvation fits together. It appears to be similar to what I grew up with but quite different from where God has me believing now.


Not sure what the question is, if it is a question? Question about salvation or the loss of salvation ?
Ez


The whole package. I have a pretty caricaterized view (not totally unbiased) and would at least like to be more fair when thinking about the traditions I grew up with.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby bn2bnude » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:52 am

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:I am curious how your theology of Salvation fits together. It appears to be similar to what I grew up with but quite different from where God has me believing now.


Not sure what the question is, if it is a question? Question about salvation or the loss of salvation ?
Ez


The whole package. I have a pretty caricaterized view (not totally unbiased) and would at least like to be more fair when thinking about the traditions I grew up with.


By the way, I know that what I am asking is not a particularly easy thing to do. It is often hard to put down what we believe into coherent statements that others can read and not ask a lot of questions.

Also, just so you know, my intent is not to set you up for some sort of argument. Even though I disagree with your perspective on several things, I respect what you believe.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby ezduzit » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:09 pm

By the way, I know that what I am asking is not a particularly easy thing to do. It is often hard to put down what we believe into coherent statements that others can read and not ask a lot of questions.

Also, just so you know, my intent is not to set you up for some sort of argument. Even though I disagree with your perspective on several things, I respect what you believe.[/quote]

Had to work this AM so just now getting to e mail etc.....................
If one believes the scripture ,discussing / explaining salvation is not hard or difficult..
I`ll start with this verse...................

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

To "believe" is to receive God`s free gift of salvation, the Bible tells us the devils also believe and tremble (James 2:19)
Please note ! no works needed or expected on our part other than to believe, it is not of works (Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.)
I would challenge you to read / skim thru the book of John and underline the word /words believe, believeth etc........... Just a child like trust in the finished work of Christ ie he died for us / bore our sins..................This acceptance of God`s free gift (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.) results in our spiritual birth / new birth.

Ez
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby jochanaan » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:18 pm

ezduzit wrote:...I would challenge you to read / skim thru the book of John and underline the word /words believe, believeth etc........... Just a child like trust in the finished work of Christ ie he died for us / bore our sins..................This acceptance of God`s free gift (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.) results in our spiritual birth / new birth.
Actually, ezduzit, many of us here, and I would include our Christian brother bn2bnude in this, are very familiar with John's Gospel and the nature of saving faith. While it is instructive, edifying and fun to discuss our diverse understandings of just what happens when the Trinity declares us "righteous" and writes (as I believe) our names into the Book of Life, we know we have been "transformed by the renewing of [our] mind" (Romans 12:2, my paraphrase) and are on the road to Heaven. And as for a deeper understanding of just how the Trinity does this, I suppose none of us can understand it fully--but that doesn't stop Him from doing it. :D
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby ezduzit » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:33 pm

jochanaan wrote:
ezduzit wrote:...I would challenge you to read / skim thru the book of John and underline the word /words believe, believeth etc........... Just a child like trust in the finished work of Christ ie he died for us / bore our sins..................This acceptance of God`s free gift (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.) results in our spiritual birth / new birth.
Actually, ezduzit, many of us here, and I would include our Christian brother bn2bnude in this, are very familiar with John's Gospel and the nature of saving faith. While it is instructive, edifying and fun to discuss our diverse understandings of just what happens when the Trinity declares us "righteous" and writes (as I believe) our names into the Book of Life, we know we have been "transformed by the renewing of [our] mind" (Romans 12:2, my paraphrase) and are on the road to Heaven. And as for a deeper understanding of just how the Trinity does this, I suppose none of us can understand it fully--but that doesn't stop Him from doing it. :D


Thanks for the response , I`m not sure if mine was what bn2nude was looking for or not , I`ll just have to wait for his reply. In my experience most / the majority want to add something to God`s plan of salvation ie works of some sort . We have in independent fundamental baptist circles gotten caught up in "quick prayerism" , just repeat after me and your on your way to heaven. The Holy Spirit has really been pushed aside , there is no genuine repentance as a result of the Spirits conviction . Most go away with a head knowledge not a heart knowledge of the things of Christ, and are never truly born again.
Ez
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby bn2bnude » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:09 pm

jochanaan wrote:
ezduzit wrote:...I would challenge you to read / skim thru the book of John and underline the word /words believe, believeth etc........... Just a child like trust in the finished work of Christ ie he died for us / bore our sins..................This acceptance of God`s free gift (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.) results in our spiritual birth / new birth.
Actually, ezduzit, many of us here, and I would include our Christian brother bn2bnude in this, are very familiar with John's Gospel and the nature of saving faith. While it is instructive, edifying and fun to discuss our diverse understandings of just what happens when the Trinity declares us "righteous" and writes (as I believe) our names into the Book of Life, we know we have been "transformed by the renewing of [our] mind" (Romans 12:2, my paraphrase) and are on the road to Heaven. And as for a deeper understanding of just how the Trinity does this, I suppose none of us can understand it fully--but that doesn't stop Him from doing it. :D


Agreed, John's Gospel as well as his epistles are some of my favorite books of the Bible.

Add to that Hebrews and Galatians.

Romans used to be right up there.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby bn2bnude » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm

ezduzit wrote:Thanks for the response , I`m not sure if mine was what bn2nude was looking for or not , I`ll just have to wait for his reply. In my experience most / the majority want to add something to God`s plan of salvation ie works of some sort . We have in independent fundamental baptist circles gotten caught up in "quick prayerism" , just repeat after me and your on your way to heaven. The Holy Spirit has really been pushed aside , there is no genuine repentance as a result of the Spirits conviction . Most go away with a head knowledge not a heart knowledge of the things of Christ, and are never truly born again.
Ez


I would agree that "quick prayerism" is a one of the issues I have with the tradition I grew up in (looking back now). As you imply, another term I've heard is "easy believism".

As far as the process of salvation "being clear" I would argue it is not so simple. If it were, you wouldn't have the diversity of the Catholic to Baptist and Reformed to Methodist (that would be one representation of the height vs. width) beliefs on how one is "saved".

Back to the question I posed earlier... I am curious on your take on things. I grew up hearing "hell-fire and brimstone" preachers whose sermons ended with an alter call and the option to say the "sinners prayer".
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby ezduzit » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:41 pm

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:Thanks for the response , I`m not sure if mine was what bn2nude was looking for or not , I`ll just have to wait for his reply. In my experience most / the majority want to add something to God`s plan of salvation ie works of some sort . We have in independent fundamental baptist circles gotten caught up in "quick prayerism" , just repeat after me and your on your way to heaven. The Holy Spirit has really been pushed aside , there is no genuine repentance as a result of the Spirits conviction . Most go away with a head knowledge not a heart knowledge of the things of Christ, and are never truly born again.
Ez


I would agree that "quick prayerism" is a one of the issues I have with the tradition I grew up in (looking back now). As you imply, another term I've heard is "easy believism".

As far as the process of salvation "being clear" I would argue it is not so simple. If it were, you wouldn't have the diversity of the Catholic to Baptist and Reformed to Methodist (that would be one representation of the height vs. width) beliefs on how one is "saved".

Back to the question I posed earlier... I am curious on your take on things. I grew up hearing "hell-fire and brimstone" preachers whose sermons ended with an alter call and the option to say the "sinners prayer".


"My take "?............. the sinners prayer a way of coercion in order to report large numbers of converts , that never darken the church house doors :-( or follow the Lord in believers baptism .It is an evil that it gives a false hope / conversion "experience" to those that never really had their eyes open to the truth, convicted of sin . Makes it extremely difficult to see many truly saved because they have a false sense of security ie "Well I prayed in a church service" etc, etc......... for one to be saved they must first realize they are lost , undone without hope....Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
I grew up as a Wesleyan Methodist , back in the old days when they did preach about sin and weren`t afraid to name them , but I wasn`t saved til in my very early 30`s....... all those years religious but lost !
I too had to un learn many traditions and the doctrines of men , the answer is not in man made denominations or what they teach / believe but in the living Word of God.....Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
For me it is the KJV ( there will be no discussion / arguments supporting my view on that )
Ez
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby jochanaan » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:28 pm

ezduzit wrote:... For me it is the KJV ( there will be no discussion / arguments supporting my view on that )
Off-topic comment alert: Would you be open to discussing your views on another forum page? I have this strange trait of curiosity, especially roused when someone says "I'm not discussing this." :)
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby Bare_Truth » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:39 pm

jochanaan wrote:
ezduzit wrote:... For me it is the KJV ( there will be no discussion / arguments supporting my view on that )
Off-topic comment alert: Would you be open to discussing your views on another forum page? I have this strange trait of curiosity, especially roused when someone says "I'm not discussing this." :)

Ah yes, that would be a great discussion topic. KJV is my primary translation of choice, but for some atypical technical reasons. If you start such a strip, or take it up in PM's I would like to be included.
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby ezduzit » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:22 pm

jochanaan wrote:
ezduzit wrote:... For me it is the KJV ( there will be no discussion / arguments supporting my view on that )
Off-topic comment alert: Would you be open to discussing your views on another forum page? I have this strange trait of curiosity, especially roused when someone says "I'm not discussing this." :)


No I`m not interested in discussing the KJV only stance , there is enough info on the web pro and con , for those still undecided about the version of scripture they use . For me the matter is settled, thanks anyway.
Ez
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Re: Variations on "Born Again"

Postby christian84 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:09 pm

What it means to be a born again Christian ?
The Bible answers this question with a known passage found in the Gospel of John 3:1-21 .
In this chapter , the Lord Jesus Christ is talking to Nicodemus , a Pharisee and a leading member of the Sanhedrin ( Jewish so a judge ) .
Nicodemus came to Jesus after dark .
He had a few questions to put to Jesus.
Speaking to Nicodemus, Jesus said, " ... Verily, verily, I say unto thee , Except a man be born again he can not see the kingdom of God. "
Nicodemus then asked Jesus : " How can a man be born old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born ? "
Jesus answered, "Truly , truly, I say that unless one is born of water and the Spirit , he can not enter the kingdom of God . Which is born of the flesh is flesh , and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said, ' you must be born again ' .... "
(John 3:3-7 ) .


Literally , the term " born again" means " born from above . "
Nicodemus had a real need .
He felt a change of heart , a spiritual transformation .
The new birth , the second birth is an act of God whereby eternal life is assigned to the believer ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 , Titus 3:5 , 1 Peter 1:3 , 1 John 2:29 , 3:9
, 4:7 , 5:1-4 , 18) .
Gospel of John 1:12,13 indicates that the phrase " born again" also has the meaning of " become children of God" through faith in Jesus Christ's name .
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