Culture colored glasses

[Desert Hiker]

Wow! So apparently for the mikveh a person removed not only all dirt but also everything artificial. Not a bad way to live our lives.

Puts a whole new spin on "Be Real" Does it not?

[nalj]

Bath at Pool of Siloam

Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

Baths - The use of the bath was very frequent among the Hebrews (Lev. 14:8; Num. 19:19, ect.). The
high priest at his inauguration (Lev. 8:6), and on the day of atonement, was required to bathe himself
(16:4, 24). The "pools" mentioned in Neh. 3:15, 16, 2 Kings 20:20, Isa. 22:11, John 9:7, were public
bathing-places. Easton's Bible Dictionary Siloam, Pool of sent or sending. Here a notable miracle was
wrought by our Lord in giving sight to the blind (John 9:7-11). It has been identified with the Birket
Silwan in the lower Tyropoeon valley, to the south-east of the hill of Zion. The water which flows into
this pool intermittingly by a subterranean channel springs from the "Fountain of the Virgin" (q.v.). The
length of this channel, which has several windings, is 1,750 feet, though the direct distance is only
1,100 feet. The pool is 53 feet in length from north to south, 18 feet wide, and 19 deep. The water
passes from it by a channel cut in the rock into the gardens below. (See EN-ROGEL.)

Roman-Greek Culture of Israel in the times of Christ

Much has been written about the Roman Baths and Gymnasiums. What is clear is that there was gender
separation is some of them and co-ed bathing in others. In the culture of that day nudity was not a
major issue to that society.

John 9:5-11 (RSV)
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." 6 As he said this, he spat on the ground and
made clay of the spittle and anointed the man's eyes with the clay, 7 saying to him, "Go, wash in the
pool of Silo'am" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.
8 The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar, said, "Is not this the man who used to
sit and beg?" 9 Some said, "It is he"; others said, "No, but he is like him." He said, "I am the man." 10
They said to him, "Then how were your eyes opened?" 11 He answered, "The man called Jesus made
clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, 'Go to Silo'am and wash'; so I went and washed and received
my sight.

Questions :

1) Why did God send the blind man to a public bathing place? What significance did it have?

2) Is this the action of a God who would have the human body covered to prevent sin?

3) What likely was the very first thing the healed blind man saw?

[boondon]

Answers?:
1) Probably quite symbolic, visual in that physical cleansing representing spiritual cleansing from sin. People's thoughts at that time seemed to be "Who was it that sinned that this man was born blind?"
2) Nowhere does the Bible say that God covered anyone to prevent sin. I believe that God put skins on Adam and Eve to demonstrate the substitutionary sacrifices that would be required in the future that acted only as a covering as that is what the word atonement means (as far as I know). When Christ died on the cross, that is when sin was actually removed. Before that, it was simply covered. Maybe I'm making this a bit simple......
3) We'll just make it like a movie ending.... The first thing the blind man saw was Jesus Christ! (PS Who knows?)
Don

[natman]

Questions :

1) Why did God send the blind man to a public bathing place? What significance did it have?

The baths were not only places set aside for cleansing. They were also areas for social gathering. By sending the blind man to such a place, Jesus essentially insured that the blind man's sight would be returned in the presence of many witnesses, including priests that were there to perform ritual cleansings.

2) Is this the action of a God who would have the human body covered to prevent sin?

I don't think so.

3) What likely was the very first thing the healed blind man saw?

He would probably have seen several other naked people of either gender in the process of washing, preparing to wash or simply standing around discussing the news of the day.

[nalj]

NATMAN you get 100. Move to the head of the class.

Russ

Questions :

1) Why did God send the blind man to a public bathing place? What significance did it have?

The baths were not only places set aside for cleansing. They were also areas for social gathering. By sending the blind man to such a place, Jesus essentially insured that the blind man's sight would be returned in the presence of many witnesses, including priests that were there to perform ritual cleansings.

2) Is this the action of a God who would have the human body covered to prevent sin?

I don't think so.

3) What likely was the very first thing the healed blind man saw?

He would probably have seen several other naked people of either gender in the process of washing, preparing to wash or simply standing around discussing the news of the day.

[natman]

THAT'S GREAT!!! I'm vying for a scholarship!

[jochanaan]

As I was reading the most recent posts on this strip (I've been away for a couple of days soaking in Valley View Hot Springs--*mmmmm* ), it occurred to me that many people, including--sadly--too many Christians, are blind to the innocence, beauty and holiness of the human body. How will they be healed, as we have been?

[nalj]

How will they be healed, as we have been?

You nailed it on the head. How will they be healed? Lust, porn, body image, self image. How many marriages have been hurt or destroyed because of issues related to body acceptance?

[nalj]

Title: American Modesty Study
Purpose: This series of teachings is designed to challenge what has been commonly believed and taught
by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ in the United States. Often well meaning teachers teach
behaviors to keep people from sin. However, what they teach is neither scriptural or prevents sin. This
documentation is not designed to make people Naturist. It is designed so that the student will study
what the scripture really says. And how they should apply it. For me these lead to three or four various
beliefs. First the standard that one should not be unclothed except in these circumstances is wrong. The
circumstances 1) when married and together 2) at the doctors office and 3) in gender separated dressing
rooms. Second, God prefers his original creation and is not ashamed of it. Third, it is OK to be a
naturist but is not a fundamental tenant of scripture. Forth, lust is not prevented by wearing clothes but
rather encouraged.
I invite you to study these scriptures and others and determine right and wrong for yourself. This is an
individual decision as to what scripture says and how you apply it. It is the individual’s responsibility
to decide what is right for them.
Genesis 1:
4 And God saw that the light was good;
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And
God saw that it was good
12 trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was
good.
18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God
saw that it was good.
21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the
waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw
that it was good.
25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to
their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that
it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have
dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all
the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27 So God created man in
his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 And
God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue
it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living
thing that moves upon the earth."
29 And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all
the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every
beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth,
everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was
evening and there was morning, a sixth day.
1) What does God feel about all of His creation?
2) Is the human a greater creation than a) sun b) moon, c) animals d) anything man can/has create(d) ?
3) What was made in God’s image?
4) Which part of God's creation did He make to look like Himself?
5) According to these scriptures, He declared how He viewed what He created. How does God "see"
His creations; how does He feel and what does He declare about them?
6) Based on the physical "image" He created of Himself, how does He see Himself?
7) How should I see His image and what should I declare about it, i.e. His creation?

[bn2bnude]

Often well meaning teachers teach behaviors to keep people from sin. However, what they teach is neither scriptural or prevents sin.

Well said. This was also true of the religious leaders of Jesus' day. In order to keep themselves and others from breaking the law of God, they created non-essential laws to keep from getting close to breaking the law. Then they proceeded to make these pseudo-laws as important as the laws given to the people by God.

[natman]

The principle applies to many other areas besides naturism.

As parents, particularly of teenagers, we try to lead godly lives and to direct our children to do the same.

We have a virtual sign that hangs over every doorway and portal into our home which reads, "As for me and my house, we will server the Lord." For us, this means that we will not knowingly permit evil to be brought into our home, either through the TV, the internet, printed media or through the friends of our chirldren. This also means that we set certain limits around when and what our children are permitted to go and do.

This breaks down into our own sets of shalts and shalt nots.
- Thou shalt not stay out beyond 10:00pm on a weeknight (Sat - Thur).
- Thou shalt not stay out beyond 12:00am on a weekend night (Fri).
- Thou shalt not remain on the internet after we parents go to bed.
- Thou shalt not leave the house after we parents have gone to bed.
- Thou shalt treat each other with love and respect.
- Thou shalt attend Church with us on Sunday morning.
- Thou shalt notify us when you are out with friends and you change location.
- Thou shalt complete your homework assignments and clean up your room before heading off to play.
- Thou shalt not ask if a friend can spend the night in their presence.
- Thou shalt not have sexually suggestive images or language or crude or foul language on your personal web site, including those posted by your friends.

The list goes on.

From our children's perspective, that makes us "legalistic" and "unweilding".

None of these rules are explicitly spelled out in the Bible. However, we feel that they are covered under the general heading "Children obey your parents..."

This has been a constant battle because we live in a relatively affluent community (we be d' po folks), where most parents are very apethetic toward the activities of there children, either because they accept the argument that everyone elses parents allow them to do all these things, or because they are so tired from working so hard to acquire all the "stuff" people in our community are "supposed" to have that they do not have the energy to deal with their own children at the end of the day.


One thing that was very interesting occured this week. One of our son's, my 15 y/o stepson, spent a week with his natural father at the home of his wealthy in-laws. Our son was able to do all of the things he could not do in our home, including watching unrestricted cable channels all night long, unlimted access to the internet, jet and water skiing, etc, His father basically allowed him to do whatever he wanted as long as it does not interfere with whatever his father is doing. When our son came home, the first thing he did was come over and give me a big, long hug and say, "I'm so glad to be back in this house. I hated being where there were no rules." You could have knocked me over with a feather.

The aura was completely destroyed last night as he and his mom got into a huge argument because he wanted to go out and stay out until midnight after playing HS football from 4:30 until 10:30PM. Initally, when we thought he was going to be finished with football by eight o'clock, we told him he could go out with his friends, but that he had to be home no later than 11:00pm, a special treat during the week. When he didn't finish his games until 10:30 because they ended up in a playoff, we told him that we did not want him to go out at all because there was no way he would have been able to get cleaned up, meet his friends and be back before 11:00. That was all it took to set him into a tyrade, yelling at the tops of his lungs how we NEVER let him do ANY of the things EVERY OTHER KID gets to do. It was not pretty.

The point is that we try to build walls of security around our kids in similar ways that the traditional church has tried to build walls around itself to keep out sin.

I think the best wall we can build is a wall of relationship built on a firm foundation in Christ Jesus. Once that is there, the other walls are all redundant. But until that relationship wall is in place, we still need to find ways to protect our kids.

[dby]

Often well meaning teachers teach behaviors to keep people from sin. However, what they teach is neither scriptural or prevents sin.

Well said. This was also true of the religious leaders of Jesus' day. In order to keep themselves and others from breaking the law of God, they created non-essential laws to keep from getting close to breaking the law. Then they proceeded to make these pseudo-laws as important as the laws given to the people by God.

It was more than just a "hedge" to keep people away from sin. The rabbinic additions to the Torah also served to give the rabbinic authorities power. By setting up a whole set of special customs and additional works that have to be studied for years and years and making themselves the authorities capable of teaching such things they made sure that everyone else (the publican for example) was not as "good" as they were. The Instructions of Scripture at the plain basic level is really not all that difficult to keep. But when you add on obedience to all the rabbinic rules and regulations it becomes a yoke which neither we nor our forefathers was able to bear. Once you realize the distinction between the Instructions given in Scripture and the Rabbinic Law which was added by men and which often nullified the clear Instruction of Scripture, it tends to put a completely different understanding of much of Scripture and what was actually being discussed.

[nalj]

As a child I needed rules.
As a teenager I tested boundaries and rebelled
As an adult i knew when and where to explore
And as an old man I have memories (make them good ones)

[Strandloper]

Hi, NALJ –
the British First and Second World War aviator (and escaper) Douglas Bader used to say:
“Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.”
Shalom,
Strandloper

[GodsChild7]

...., archaelogists are puzzled because it has "no provision for privacy." Perhaps users didn't require any.

So true, many of the Romans bath in Biblical times were not private baths at all. They were very much public baths. May want to look at the midsection of this link: "Women in Roman Baths." Very interesting stuff:

http://www.figleafforum.com/articles_issue01.html