Preemptive strike

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Preemptive strike

Postby Bare_Truth » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:10 pm

I did not want to hijack the strip where running afoul of Child Protective Services (CPS) was mentioned as a possible complication to the topic being discussed as an issue over family nudity while raising children. So I will pose this question in this new topic.

Has anyone themselves or anyone you know of ever taken the initiative with CPS and gone to them and asked them what their position is with respect to a nudist couple raising children and what would amount to a red flag for them. If the matter is presented by a naturist couple planning on having children, there would be no grounds for an investigation or CPS interference at that time. It would of course be nice to get something in writing, and since one would be asking up front, then if any sanity exists at CPS someone asking first should likely reduce suspicions at CPS relative to what the case would be if the couple were reported for suspicions.

It is just a thought but I am wondering if anyone has ever tried this approach. I have heard of CPS being a rogue organization in some states or localities but perhaps it is not always so.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Petros » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:50 am

As I have said a few times here and more than a few elsewhere, I am not easily convinced of the good will of any arm of the bureaucracy or of positive outcomes to dealing with them

Once in Kenya, I was running around doping my thing collecting useful language data. At a certain point, stimulated by something an acquaintance doing history research there had said, I walked innocently into the local government office top ask advice about going on the next leg of my projected route.

The authority immediately began asking about papers I did not have [having been assured by the Kentan offices in London they would not be necessary], confiscated my passport, and shot me back to Nairobi where I was interrogated for a few hours [eventually they decided I was a harmless crank, not CIA].

You will then understand when I suspect that walking into the office as sugested would just giove thedm grounds for examining you more closely.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby JimShedd112 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:04 am

While you make a good argument Petros, I think Bare_Truth's suggestion of a preemptive strike could be the right approach. So what if they came to investigate your empty nest, as it were. You'd at least then know in advance what kind of people/organization you were dealing with. Every agency's usual response is "Get a lawyer" which to me makes no sense at all when they're the ones enforcing the laws you've tried to inquire about. It happened top me when I tried to ask the local Sheriff, District Attorney, and Nevada Attorney General about at-home nudity on one's own property. Ironically, the Sheriff's Office reply came from his legal counsel (attorney). I never got a reply from the DA at all.

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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby jjsledge » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:17 am

I am reminded an Oklahoma couple who were adopting (I think) and let CPS know they visited a Texas nudist resort. The CPS visited the resort and gave a green light as to the safety and integrity of the resort and the couple. My information is from the couple themselves not hearsay.

However my personal experience with CPS is reminiscent of Gestapo tactics. Contacted an attorney and the CPS worker was removed from the case and the case was reassigned to a friendlier worker.

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Those who judge the motives of othere are simply revealing what's in their own hearts. Frank Viola "Revise Us Again" p.89
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby bn2bnude » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:33 am

Also, if CPS is anything like the park services has been in both California or Florida, you may find that the attitude is at the whim of the person you are talking to.

In both places, long standing unofficial (but not necessarily illegal) nude beaches have been threatened because the new district supervisors see something wrong with it.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:57 am

If you have concerns, I would contact your NAC representative. It may be helpful to ask him/her for a referral to a lawyer who is competent in this area of practice and understands naturism.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Petros » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:44 pm

Always good advice:

"be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby nature » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:48 pm

It does seem a good idea, but will it cause red flags ect.

However the flip side is that kids talk, sometimes my wife knows more than she should as a teacher as the kids talk, without thinking about anything. Some teachers, adults could take this up and report it. So if you already approached the CPS, there should not be a need to investigate as they have already done so.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:06 am

If you are trying to convince a judge that you are a naturist, it helps your case to be a member of a naturist organization or at least a regular at a naturist camp. If you go solo, you may still be able to prove your point, but with greater effort.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby nature » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:07 am

Ramblinman wrote:If you are trying to convince a judge that you are a naturist, it helps your case to be a member of a naturist organization or at least a regular at a naturist camp. If you go solo, you may still be able to prove your point, but with greater effort.


Never thought of it that way, but you have a very valid point.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:50 am

nature wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:If you are trying to convince a judge that you are a naturist, it helps your case to be a member of a naturist organization or at least a regular at a naturist camp. If you go solo, you may still be able to prove your point, but with greater effort.


Never thought of it that way, but you have a very valid point.

At least here in the United States, naturism is regarded by the law as a legally-protected belief system, not unlike a religion such as Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Church of England, etc.. If my beliefs have no rights, then churches of any kind should not expect to have rights as well.
In my faith, naturism is part of my Christian world view.
I can't help it if some people have cut out the naturist portion of the Christian life.
I prefer to follow the practice and teachings of the early church and the apostles in these matters.

I meet Christians on many occasions when I go to naturist places, even pastors and church leaders.
I have met two chaplains at naturist venues, wonderful men of God who set a great example.
AANR and NAC have legal teams that are available to help if our character is ever called into question.
There are a few places in our country where naturism is not legally protected. The state of Arkansas is one.
In Vermont, there is arguably the greatest freedom provided you are in a place where you have the expectation of privacy or where it is widely known that you are in a place where skinny dipping takes place.
We certainly have problems with prudish police and government officials who don't understand our rights, but some hard-fought court cases more than 50 years ago gave us rights in the court room that have helped enormously.

In the United States, there is the principle that any rights not expressly given to federal government or the states, remain with the people. In practice, we sometimes have to assert those rights when challenged. This is not something to do on our own. We need to partner with other naturists and freedom-lovers to speak with a loud voice.
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Petros » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:14 pm

"In the United States, there is the principle that any rights not expressly given to federal government or the states, remain with the people." There was that principle. However, Big Brother constantly redefines things, and for many in government - though some try to oppose it - the currevt reading is rather "any rights not expresslyclaimed by federal government or the states, remain with the people."
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby natman » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:21 pm

Petros wrote:"In the United States, there is the principle that any rights not expressly given to federal government or the states, remain with the people." There was that principle. However, Big Brother constantly redefines things, ...


As in, "It all depends on what the definition of 'is' is."
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Petros » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:29 pm

Quite
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Preemptive strike

Postby Bare_Truth » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:01 pm

Ramblinman wrote:If you are trying to convince a judge that you are a naturist, it helps your case to be a member of a naturist organization or at least a regular at a naturist camp. If you go solo, you may still be able to prove your point, but with greater effort.
I believe it would also be an asset if you have a large number of posts on multiple naturist web sites it would probably constitute evidence. If those posts happen to be on Christian naturist websites it could also be evidence of your moral/ethical approach to naturism, and the content of those posts over a matter of years would probably be indicative of your outlook. Of course if you happen to rail on a particular political orientation which the judge is opposed to that could hurt. Camp or organization affiliation would not likely indicate your politics. or provide written material that the prosecutor could illegitimately misconstrue.
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