A Proud Moment

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A Proud Moment

Postby nakedpreacher » Fri May 29, 2015 8:57 pm

I shared with you all that my Mother in Law will be living with us in a previous strip. This has now happened. We have purchased a piece of property in South Carolina (also in a previous strip). Until we have fulfilled work obligations we are living with her in our four bedroom house. Luckily it is two stories and she knows that if she comes to the basement she may see me naked so she stays upstairs when I am home. She was discussing with my daughters the importance of keeping doors closed when they are changing clothes because It can cause sexual feeling in men (even your dad) if they see you (I told you she had a lot of hang UPS).
To which my daughter replied, "Why, nudity is not sexual."
My older daughter replied "When my dad walks around naked, I can assure you that there are no sexual feelings, It's just a little weird"
to which the younger one said, "no it's not, that's just dad".
Grammie said, "It is for some people"
to which they replied, "Not for us"
I can see that there will have to be further conversations on this subject, but it is nice to know that the message has gotten through to my kids
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If, when we judged others, our real motive was to destroy evil; we should look for evil where it is certain to be found, and that is in our own hearts. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby JimShedd112 » Fri May 29, 2015 11:43 pm

Congratulations NakedPreacher in the fact your daughters have not been swayed by society nor their grandmother. Let's hope they continue to recognize the truth.

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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby Petros » Sat May 30, 2015 12:59 am

Also, "not weird, just Dad" is a very good sign. I am glad Number 1 Son no longer wants to sink into the earth when I act out, but it is great that we can roll our eyes in responzse to one another.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby jasenj1 » Sat May 30, 2015 6:16 am

Great to hear that your daughters have internalized nude != lewd.

However, they were answering a different question/issue than what your MIL proposed in the scenario. The MIL said _they_ (the girls) should not allow themselves to be seen naked by men. They responded (at least in your snippet) that to them (the girls) seeing male nudity was not sexual.

It's boys seeing girls vs girls seeing boys. The premise is that males are aroused by seeing female nudity. And even that males are aroused or react differently to seeing female nudity than females do to seeing male nudity. And frankly, I think it is an accurate statement. Whether it is innate or conditioned by society I'm not certain - I lean toward innate strongly reinforced by society.

But, I don't think we need to hide from that arousal. Instead, we need to take those thoughts captive, and learn to control it. That is acknowledge, yes, when men see women nude they enjoy the view (and in a way that women tend not to to the same degree when the roles are reversed). But that does not mean the men must/should react by jumping on the woman, or that the woman is advertising "she wants it" by being nude. But our society takes exactly that warped view.
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat May 30, 2015 9:08 am

You're right, Jasen. Gramma was advising the daughter to close their door(s) when changing clothes since it might incite their dad to sexual feelings and, apparently, they did answer in terms of their views of seeing their dad nude. Yes, the sight of a female body is lovely but it doesn't mean men cannot control themselves. Who knows, perhaps the MIL's own views will change over time and she'll accept the fact she's going to see nudity at least from time to time. I don't think she'll ever accept the fact it's totally normal to be nude in mixed company, particularly but hopefully she'll accept the others' rights to live as they choose.

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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby Bare_Truth » Sat May 30, 2015 10:01 am

Wow! Naked Preacher! Your daughters have done a wonderful job in responding to your Mother in-law! You have done a wonderful job of innoculating them against the false shame and the false notion that nudity = sex. The fact that they contradicted their granny shows that their understanding and viewpoint on the matter runs deep. Your youngest daughter's response is absolutely adorable. A real "from the mouths of babes" kind of statement.

Do you take your daughters on visits to naturist resorts. They certainly would benefit from the experience, and it would further strengthen them from your mother-in-law's meddling. And besides I think they earned such a reward. I do not know how your relationship with her is otherwise but I know that in your situation I would be inclined to speak out on the matter. however the interpersonal dynamics of such a situation can be highly variable from one family to another. But without a doubt, :D your daughters did you proud ! :D

I am just curious however, How did you come to know about this conversation. Was it reported to you, or did it happen in your presence?

Naked Preacher wrote:I can see that there will have to be further conversations on this subject, but it is nice to know that the message has gotten through to my kids
I was just wondering, when you wrote that, just who were yoiu thinking of having that (those) conversation(s) with.

Were you thinking of having your wife speak to her mother
or
Were you thinking of speaking with your daughters about how proud you were about how they handled it, but just don't yank Granny's chain too hard :wink: :wink: :wink:
or
Were you thinking of speaking to your MIL directly and reminding her that as head of houshold you will be responsible for your daughter's upbringing and do not want them burdened with Victorian notions of:
-- false modesty
-- shame and confusion about sex and
-- misguided notions of morality and
-- personal responsibility for avoiding lust.
That last one sounds like a topic for a Bible study or even a sermon.
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby nakedpreacher » Sun May 31, 2015 1:19 am

The conversation was reported to me by my wife who was in an adjoining room. I plan on addressing the reason for our decision to pursue this lifestyle, namely to inoculate my boys against pornography and my girls against body shame. We have had discussions about the blog that Jochanaan referenced in another strip about modesty culture and the extremes to which it has gone. I do plan to address the issue myself but not in a confrontational way. As I have mentioned before, she does listen to biblical truth, she has just been misinformed on this issue. I plan on depending heavily on Matthew Neal's Blog and also on Pastor Jeff Bowman.
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If, when we judged others, our real motive was to destroy evil; we should look for evil where it is certain to be found, and that is in our own hearts. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby jochanaan » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:59 am

Your daughters are great, nakedpreacher! :D
jasenj1 wrote:...Whether it is innate or conditioned by society I'm not certain - I lean toward innate strongly reinforced by society....
I would have to disagree, Jasen. All the women I've known are just as turned on by looking at a man as we are looking at women--clothed or not. But until the last few decades, it hasn't been socially acceptable for women to acknowledge their own desires (unless the woman was Mae West :) ).
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby nakedpreacher » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:18 pm

In my one social nude experience (I know not a lot of experience) I would say that turned on would not even be the right term. I appreciated the beauty of the human form (both male and female, young and old, healthy and not) but the sexual aspect was completely absent. When we unlearn what society has taught us, namely that men are highly visually stimulated, we reap a huge benefit of Naturism, the desexualization of the female form. This is a boon to our personal relationships with women and to our spiritual lives.
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If, when we judged others, our real motive was to destroy evil; we should look for evil where it is certain to be found, and that is in our own hearts. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby Petros » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:28 am

Hence the philosophically puzzling mythology:

Conventional witness says, modesty requires women to cover skin lest men be aroused, AND self-interest requires women to expose some skin so as to keep men interested, AND in the interest of maintaining the species women must not appear nude lest men become accustomed to the sight and lose interest.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby JimShedd112 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:03 am

I agre with you Naked Preacher. I've attended only a handful of naked social events. I certainly admired the nakedness of all those present but was not even remotely turned on no matter how visually attractive they were. It's amazing just how nonsexual it is to be among other nudists who're simply enjoying the events unclothed.

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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby jochanaan » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:32 pm

nakedpreacher wrote:In my one social nude experience (I know not a lot of experience) I would say that turned on would not even be the right term. I appreciated the beauty of the human form (both male and female, young and old, healthy and not) but the sexual aspect was completely absent. When we unlearn what society has taught us, namely that men are highly visually stimulated, we reap a huge benefit of Naturism, the desexualization of the female form. This is a boon to our personal relationships with women and to our spiritual lives.
Naked Preacher
Oh, of course! But among too many folks, to appreciate beauty is seen as some kind of sexual perversion. :roll:

Yet I am always careful not to say that there is "no sexual interest" in seeing others naked in a naturist setting. It's more accurate to say, as I often have, that there is no more sexual interest in such situations than at the average church fellowship dinner. Who among us, if we are honest, can say that we never fantasize, wonder, or otherwise think about sex when looking at a member of the opposite sex, clothed or naked, at work, on the street, or even in church? Yet, a single nudist experience often changes our mindset enough that we can look at a nude woman or a picture of one and not assume sexual availability or temptation. 8) :D
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby Jon-Marc » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:52 pm

Just be careful--false accusations can easily be made by anything one of your daughters might say to the wrong person. I'm reminded of a man who I think was on Naturist Christians. We corresponded for several years as his two daughters grew up and saw him nude pretty much all the time. His wife didn't like it but tolerated since the daughters didn't seem to have a problem with it--or so they thought.

When the older girl was 15, she mentioned to someone at school about her dad being nude around them, and all h-ll broke loose. He was arrested, charged with "lewd behavior", lost his family, his home, his job; his church (Mormons) rejected him, and that was the last I heard from him. We did meet at Turtle Lake Resort, and he was a likeable fellow, but that experience really broke him. So again, be careful. How old are your daughters?

When my older daughter (I have two in the 40's) was 8, she began to be uncomfortable with me being nude. The mother and society has more influence on them than you ever will. The older one and I were very close, and she was a very loving girl who loved to kiss and sit in my lap. Then suddenly one day when I was drying myself after a shower, she asked, "When are you going to get dressed?" I realized that the innocent days were coming to a close. Something in them can change so rapidly that you have no idea what happened. I ended up being accused of things I didn't do and lost visitation. True or not doesn't matter; the accusations alone make you appear guilty. My second marriage failed because of those accusations; she couldn't handle being married to a "child molester" who simply allowed his daughters to see him nude and was falsely accused of molesting them. That loving daughter no longer wants anything to do with me. Of course, she has some very serious emotional problems that cause her to hurt herself--caused by two weeks in a hospital at 5 months old with Meningitis that caused slight mental degeneration.

Yes, everything might be OK now, but that can very quickly change. Most of society will probably never accept a father being nude in front of his daughters as OK or normal. They see it as lewd behavior, inappropriate, and sexual--even though it's perfectly innocent to you, and your daughters don't seem to have a problem with it--yet.
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby jasenj1 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:33 am

Thank you Jon-Marc for the reminder of how badly things can go.

I am reminded of Eph. 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Caution & prayer.
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Re: A Proud Moment

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:18 am

Jon-Marc wrote:Just be careful--false accusations can easily be made by anything one of your daughters might say to the wrong person. I'm reminded of a man who I think was on Naturist Christians. We corresponded for several years as his two daughters grew up and saw him nude pretty much all the time. His wife didn't like it but tolerated since the daughters didn't seem to have a problem with it--or so they thought.

When the older girl was 15, she mentioned to someone at school about her dad being nude around them, and all h-ll broke loose. He was arrested, charged with "lewd behavior", lost his family, his home, his job; his church (Mormons) rejected him, and that was the last I heard from him. We did meet at Turtle Lake Resort, and he was a likeable fellow, but that experience really broke him. So again, be careful. How old are your daughters?


Tough break for your friend! But if he "lost his family", this shows a wife who didn't stand by her husband and daughters who obviously didn't know what nudism was, just knew that "dad was naked in front of me a lot".
It's hard to keep the kids in the nudist mindset with a wife who is against it and no family friends to reinforce nudist values. To be honest, being a Mormon didn't help him. If you don't conform to their culture, you really do get shunned. And for a lot of them, their entire career and social network is tied up in Mormon life. It's all or nothing.

A nudist couple who are AANR or Naturist Society members, active in naturist camps as a family and not mixed up in some controlling religious system are not likely to be arrested and have it stick, nor fired and shunned by everyone they know. Although some of the hardshell Baptists are as condemning, legalistic, judgemental.
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