Questions about children in nude families

[MatthewNeal]

YKR: How do you deal with children seeing boys or men with erections?

Sam, I was very interested in your reply on this issue, and I was pleased to see that your experience seemed to confirm what I imagined would be the best approach. Any other comments?

This was my response to YKR...

I don't think your husband's question is inappropriate at all... And especially in this forum.

As you already know, I'm just a seeker like you, not quite to the "jumping in" point yet...

But I'll give you my thought as to how I imagine that I would explain it.

Erections are a natural function of the male body. Just as periods are a natural function of the female body.

Ladies have periods once a month and they last for about a week. That's life. That's God's design. And in an open home, everyone would know when any of the ladies are on their periods. The response should be...

"So what?"

I'd explain it all as part of God's "fearfully and wonderfully made" designs of the human body.

In the same way... boys have erections. I would explain it like I would the menstrual cycle. With the inclusion of the fact that sometimes the body kicks in and performs a self test of the system. I've heard that it even happens in their mother's womb before birth! Therefore, if it happens and happens to be seen?... again...

"So what?"

I think it would be a mistake to treat it as naughty or bad or embarassing or shameful, provided it was not the result of inappropriate actions or imaginations... and hopefully we will have taught these things already.

It's really something quite amazing and fascinating! God's design of the multipurpose penis!

I'm referring to young boys here, of course. As a man, I can't really imagine it happening to me... erections are elusive enough when I'm trying to have one... But if it did, I would just excuse myself, or discreetly cover until it subsided. Not out of shame, but just like a woman doesn't flaunt her period, I shouldn't flaunt how my body works either. Teens and young men could learn to do the same.

Most family oriented nudist parks I've read about on the internet have a FAQ page and invaribly, one of the questions is "What do I do if... well, you know...?" And they usually say something like. "Erections aren't polite in a nudist park. And it usually doesn't happen. But if it does, simply cover yourself until it goes away."

That makes sense to me.

Yours is a good question, but I wouldn't base a decision regarding your family's openness to nudity in your home on fear about this issue.

That's my thoughts at the moment!

Matt

[natman]

MatthewNeal,

I'm glad I could help and I appreciate your post. There is one caveat. You said...

So, why do I have confidence now? Because I've discovered a new way of thinking that might hold the key... Surprisingly... more exposure to nudity, not less!...

The key is more exposure to REAL, NATURAL nudity, not the artificially enhanced, air-brushed, sexually charged garbage one might see in a magazine, movie, TV or print ad.

The best examples are some of the true naturist magazines or the photo album on naturist-christians.org and cheef.com. I hope that we have as good a collection if not better here at some time.

The other key is to actually live it. Don't just tell your kids that there is nothing sinful about their bodies, show them, and treat them as though you are not ashamed of God's creation. Show them the difference between good nudity and bad nudity. Explain to them how the entertainment and porn industries take advantage of women (and some men), use them and throw them away. That's not how God tells us to treat people.

[MatthewNeal]

NM: The key is more exposure to REAL, NATURAL nudity, not the artificially enhanced, air-brushed, sexually charged garbage one might see in a magazine, movie, TV or print ad.

Thanks for the correction... That's really what I meant, but it certainly is worth clarifying!

Matt

[LivingFree]

I don't really know how to answer that question either as it has never happened with the kids around aside from the time that our daughter, at about 6 years old, came quietly into our bedroom while we were having sexual relations one early morning. Neither of us noticed her standing at the foot of the bed until we were almost finished. All she said was " Can I have some breakfast."

This kind of comment makes me keep wondering, "Why not?" I know that much of the world wants to keep sexual activities private, and the question I would ask is "Why?" What's really underneath it all? I know we're afraid kids will learn the wrong things. Was that true in the case of Nathan's daughter? Don't kids finally figure it out anyway? Isn't it better for kids to become aware of the normal and natural affection between mom and dad in natural ways, rather than in prurient ways? At a time in their lives when kids aren't having sexual feelings or sexual thoughts, isn't that a really good time for them to learm what's it all about, and not be restricted to the neighborhood dogs running loose?

Now, I'm not at all suggesting exhibitionist activities, just for their own sake. But consider this. In Genesis 26:8 Abimelech looked out of his window and saw Isaac "caressing" Rebekah. Frankly, the Hebrew word for "caressing" really means making love. What's obvious is that (a) it was daylight, (b) Isaac and Rebekah had the tent flaps up, likely for ventilation, and (c) it was not shameful for their marital affection to show in a public way. I don't think they were flaunting it; it just happened. And in my mind, anyway, if that one experience got into the biblical story, it seems certain that it probably happened hundreds of times a year all over the land, and the kids knew all about it. (Was it any different in the small log cabins of frontier America?)

There's a particular point I want to raise here, for discussion, and it is not to grant license to sex-crazy people. The point is that in our society we live by a terrible set of double standards. We buy condoms for our kids (well, some people do), but every message we send is that sex outside of marriage is bad, and it always is private, but still we make it the butt end of tons of jokes. Wouldn't it be so much better if we could just be normal and sane together in our homes? Normally naked, sometimes hand-holding, sometimes hugging, sometimes a kiss, sometimes a pat on the body, without embarrassment that mommy and daddy really like each other and like to show it? And if the kids walk in on a private moment in the bedroom, what's the big deal? How better to send a positive message? Kids learn values by observing their parents, and isn't it true that seeing is worth a thousand words? What better way to teach the positive value of why and where and between whom?

[LivingFree]

True, I've always (and especially in the last 10 years) enjoyed being naked myself, but I have NEVER paraded around naked in front of my family! (snip snip snip)

I suppose the reason i represent a different kind of voice than the others on CNV is this... I have NOT become a nudist at this point yet.

Matt,

I'm just wondering -- aren't you really just a "private, home nudist" instead of a family nudist or a social nudist? I was actually nude at home privately for a long time before I was nude when my wife was around, and now I'm nude 24/7 and she's OK with it, but I've never been nude around others. But I certainly consider myself a nudist/naturist. I've lived it, partially at first, and now it's the only right way for me to be as long as I don't offend others.

[SiteAdmin]

The best examples are some of the true naturist magazines or the photo album on naturist-christians.org and cheef.com. I hope that we have as good a collection if not better here at some time.

The Photo Album feature is up now again. That means that all Full Members and above are free to post their own personal photo albums, along with captions and descriptions if they wish. The one general album is still under development, and more are planned eventually.

If you want to talk about the albums, please begin a new thread somewhere for that discussion.

[natman]

I don't really know how to answer that question either as it has never happened with the kids around aside from the time that our daughter, at about 6 years old, came quietly into our bedroom while we were having sexual relations one early morning. Neither of us noticed her standing at the foot of the bed until we were almost finished. All she said was " Can I have some breakfast."

This kind of comment makes me keep wondering, "Why not?" I know that much of the world wants to keep sexual activities private, and the question I would ask is "Why?" What's really underneath it all? I know we're afraid kids will learn the wrong things. Was that true in the case of Nathan's daughter? Don't kids finally figure it out anyway? Isn't it better for kids to become aware of the normal and natural affection between mom and dad in natural ways, rather than in prurient ways? At a time in their lives when kids aren't having sexual feelings or sexual thoughts, isn't that a really good time for them to learm what's it all about, and not be restricted to the neighborhood dogs running loose?

I am sure that from pre-historic times, through Biblical times and right on up to the industrial revolution, the fact that large families and several generations typically lived together in one-room tents on up to one-room houses. About twenty years ago I visited the house my dad grew up in back in the 1940's. It was a one-room house with a wood stove in one corner. My dad had five brothers and two sisters. Discretion simply was not part of the equation. Baths were weekly and sequential from parents down to the youngest. The restroom was a two-holer out back (or a tree). When my grandparents "embraced", undoubtedly there were other children in the room.

I agree that, as a society, we do make way too big a deal about sex and other natural functions. We do tend to humorize such activities as well. Even with our openness about our bodies, however, I still feel that sexual intimacy is intended for privacy, if for no other reason than to avoid distraction and because both may be in a state of vulnerability.

We also should not over-react when our children accidentally catch us in the act. In fact, when my daughter caught us that time, we both just looked at her and calmly asked "Are you okay hunny?" Had we screamed and quickly covered up, she may have been traumatized and thought she had done something wrong.

[MatthewNeal]

True, I've always (and especially in the last 10 years) enjoyed being naked myself, but I have NEVER paraded around naked in front of my family! (snip snip snip)

I suppose the reason i represent a different kind of voice than the others on CNV is this... I have NOT become a nudist at this point yet.

Matt,

I'm just wondering -- aren't you really just a "private, home nudist" instead of a family nudist or a social nudist? I was actually nude at home privately for a long time before I was nude when my wife was around, and now I'm nude 24/7 and she's OK with it, but I've never been nude around others. But I certainly consider myself a nudist/naturist. I've lived it, partially at first, and now it's the only right way for me to be as long as I don't offend others.

I could probably say that now, yes... but not really before now. Recognizing my desire and actually embracing it are two different things. My family was out of town from Sunday to Thursday this week... and while I was home alone, (and for the first time ever) I intentionally spent every minute I could naked, only dressing to go to work, or walk out into the yard or the back deck. Even during the daylight hours, however, I slipped out of my shorts to swim in our above-ground pool.

I would have had more freedom in our back yard, but even though we do have a privacy fence of sorts, it's only 5 ft. high and each of the wood slats are seperated by a 1" gap. And the fact that our deck is a good 2 feet off the ground makes it less than optimally private.

Quite frankly, I loved it. Felt wonderful and around the house, I completely forgot that I was nude.

So, perhaps as of this week, I'm now a private nudist. And I'm talking with my wife about what we should do in our home.

Matt

[LivingFree]

I agree that, as a society, we do make way too big a deal about sex and other natural functions. We do tend to humorize such activities as well. Even with our openness about our bodies, however, I still feel that sexual intimacy is intended for privacy, if for no other reason than to avoid distraction and because both may be in a state of vulnerability.

We also should not over-react when our children accidentally catch us in the act. In fact, when my daughter caught us that time, we both just looked at her and calmly asked "Are you okay hunny?" Had we screamed and quickly covered up, she may have been traumatized and thought she had done something wrong.

I agree, that at least for intimate communication reasons, love-making even if it doesn't involve intercourse is better reserved for private moments. In fact, others -- including children -- often get nervous when parents, or anyone, kiss passionately, or become intimate with other body parts. It sets up an emotional reaction in other people that they often don't know what to do about. So I'm certainly not advocating open sex, in the family or anywhere else. (Although I do suspect that some families are more open than we suspect, and I doubt the kids are scarred for life because of it.)

But I also agree with Nathan's last paragraph, not to overreact when the kids walk in on us, or catch us in an intimate moment. As Nathan said yesterday, for the kid it's more like "OK. Now can you take care of my needs?" Kids will learn more from parents' reactions than from their nervous lectures about the "birds and the bees."

[Desert Hiker]

In families with kids older than 3, there are two kinds of parents--those that have been caught by the kids making love, and those that don't know they have been caught by the kids Kids are not stupid, and can be quite sneaky--especially when their curiosity gets them to search out where mom & dad are hiding, and why. Depending on their ages, they may understand to varying degrees what it is they are observing-- don't underestimate them, they know more than you are probably ready to acknowledge.

I sincerely believe that knowledge brings understanding, and understanding diminishes the need to search out the answers on their own--and cause trouble. Therefore, I am a strong proponent of educating our kids early, and avoid the temptation of giving them these cheesey fairy tales of storks. Whenever they ask the question, they are ready to recieve, and deserve an honest answer that they understand. Ask follow up questions of your own, to ensure they are "getting it". It is OK if they don't quite understand all of it, and don't get the whole picture at one sitting. Ideally, this is a conversation that takes place over their lifetimes--as they mature, their ability to understand increases exponentially, and their questions will get more and more refined as well. Bottom line; give it to them straight, and they will understand much better, and will be more inclined to seek you out for answers about these subjects, and instill in them the proper moral guidelines they need.

I also strongly believe it is wrong to be exhibitional with sex, in any setting. Privacy may be at a premium, or even non-existant in many homes, but there are ways to minimize the obviousness of our activities in such settings. Making love in a tent, or one room house, makes it hard to keep your activities from being known, but when we are out camping we just cover up and keep quiet, or wait till the kids are busy playing outside--or better yet, wait till they fall asleep. I am sure this the reason allot of parents set bedtimes of 7:30, or 8:00.

We practiced "family bed" in our home for years, and so sending the kids to bed early did not afford us any additional privacy, and presented challenges for us finding privacy. Even so, we did manage to do so. We just occasionally send the kids over to grandma, or wait till their afternoon nap, or employed a trusted sitter. When there is a will, there is a way. BTW, practicing the family bed does create a good sense of security, and helps foster a strong bond in the family. Most kids want to sleep in the same beds as their parents, up until about age 5 to 7 anyway. It did reduce our privacy, and we were unable to have intimate moments with them there, but we are happy with the relationship we have with our kids because of it, and I strongly endorse it.

Mom and dad need their time alone, it is good to have the kids in bed, or being watched by a trusted friend or family member, so that we can stop being parents for a moment and be a couple for a time.

[Strandloper]

Hi, Sam –
thanks for that perspective. My father made a practice of showing his affection for my mom in our company, and would have her sit on his lap as he stroked her thighs. But he was never exhibitionist.
We often would go to their bed as small children, and even lie with them in the morning much later in life, but they encouraged us to have an afternoon nap and had early bedtimes, too. This was for our own good, naturally (don’t let anyone tell you that sleep isn’t healthy), but it also gave them the privacy they needed.
My dad told me when he was in his sixties that his parents had enjoyed an active sex life well into their eighties, and he and my mom were similarly active until his Alzheimer’s clouded his mind.
Shalom,
Strandloper

[Desert Hiker]

Well, this discussion seems to be winding down a bit. I certainly hope that this discussion has been helpful in sheding some light on this issue. If you have any more questions, or observations, do not hesitate to post them.

[bnlrndcplmd]

Just ran across this...very quickly...I was the product of naturist parents. Think I have lived a fairly normal life, never starred in porn. Frankly, the very few times I have seen it, it bored me to tears. Having been in military most of my adult life porn was everywhere, I would find other things to do like read,go to church or have a conversation (not many do this anymore. Divorced, not because of naturism. First wife would not grow up or grow with me. I never introduced her to naturism, she would not have been able to handle it.

[Jon-Marc]

My first wife and I went to see an X rated movie in California in 1970 or 1971. I thought it was very boring, but it get me in the mood. I couldn't wait to get the baby sitter home so I could get back home.

[jochanaan]

...or have a conversation (not many do this anymore...

Oh, a few of us still practice the art. Just last night I had great conversations with two different women on two different buses. It only takes being willing to say the first words.

Edit: Young children seem mostly to be willing to engage anyone in conversation as long as they'll listen.