Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Ramblinman » Fri May 13, 2016 11:37 pm

DaveT wrote:I think God already invented telaportation. How else could an angel fly 100's of light years in just minutes? or seconds, or less. And it's naked too. At least void of material garments, a robe of light might look something like a real robe. However it's said that when Jesus comes, those men who crucified him will be resurrected to see him, and they will see the wounds they made in his hands, feet, and side. The side wound would be covered if he was wearing an opaque robe of anything, so even though he's clothed with bright light, his form is still visible. It's pretty clear to see that garments made of anything but light are a thing of this world only. Introduced after sin made it's entrance, and because of it.

I think this garment of light doctrine is not in the Bible, instead was invented by Ellen G. White years ago.
Anyone else?
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Bare_Truth » Sat May 14, 2016 11:59 am

Ramblinman wrote:I think this garment of light doctrine is not in the Bible, instead was invented by Ellen G. White years ago.
Anyone else?

It certainly seems to be a human concept to describe what is written of in Reveleation 19:8
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
It is taking what may be a metaphor as a literal statement, and trying to make sense of it but then "linen = light" would really only be a different metaphor. Myself I see it as a parallel symbolism of a wedding gown being white as a symbol of purity, especially because it is metaphorically speaking of the church as the wife of Christ. Who ever cooked it up and applied it to Adam and Eve in the garden before the forbidden fruit instance was probably just another textile who could not accept that naked meant no clothing of any sort woven of linen, cotton, wool, light, or fig leaves!
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Petros » Sat May 14, 2016 12:09 pm

Heavenly beings may radiate here - as on the mountain top. But I very much doubt in the heavenlies anything is concealed or needs to be concealed. Leaving Eden aside, God has seen every infant or bathing or otherwise nude human body there ever was; why would he be offended at the sight of the unshrouded resurrection body?

Just as a side note, it is vastly unlikely that the movements and appearances of angels or the risen Christ involve teleportation in the strict sense. Ditto for the Star Trek transporter which seems to be a variant of the destroy /transmit / reconstitute device fairly common in one segment of sci-fi. But angels won't be that either.
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Ramblinman » Sat May 14, 2016 1:23 pm

Bare_Truth wrote: Who ever cooked it up and applied it to Adam and Eve in the garden before the forbidden fruit instance was probably just another textile who could not accept that naked meant no clothing of any sort woven of linen, cotton, wool, light, or fig leaves!

Genesis says they were naked!
If there was a light around them, it is given that they weren't wearing "light" for clothing or they wouldn't have been described as "naked and not ashamed" (Gen. 2:25).
Did they exude a visible radiance?
Maybe...
Moses did after returning from Mount Sinai, Jesus did on the Mount of Transfiguration, but there's no evidence that it covered nakedness.
Would I be alarmed if I had a light around my body and it went out for the first time in my life?
You bet I would.
But it is NOT in the Bible and pure speculation to conjecture one way or the other about it.
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby MountainDog » Sat May 14, 2016 9:46 pm

Ramblinman wrote:
DaveT wrote:It's pretty clear to see that garments made of anything but light are a thing of this world only. Introduced after sin made it's entrance, and because of it.

I think this garment of light doctrine is not in the Bible, instead was invented by Ellen G. White years ago.
Anyone else?


As already mentioned, there is Biblical evidence for people, because of being holy, to emanate light. Now some would like to think it is an opaque light shield. However, even though Adam and Eve were wearing this garment of light, they were said to be naked and unashamed. Why would it even be important to mention if they could not see through this garment of light?

I would also suggest that holy people can look on to someone shining with holiness without a problem, but wicked people looking on someone clothed with a garment of light are not able to. Just consider what happened to the soldiers guarding the tomb of Jesus when the angels came for his resurrection. They fell as dead men.
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Petros » Sun May 15, 2016 12:57 am

Let us consider here.

We have some evidence for people radiating when close to the heavenlies or when coming from such exposure. We do not know the nature of such radiance, but we can assume it is a type of energy with some characteristics like electromagnetic radiation.

Fine. But how would this count, except metaphorically, as a garment orcovering?

We know that here and now our bodies are surrounded by fields of various types. Certainly a gravitational field, certainly an electromagnetic field - we radiate heat. We are not normally phosphorescent, such light as we put out is normally reflected. But some claim we put out other fields which some claim they can detect, such as the alleged aura.

Are these fields in any way garment like? Hardly. They are not put on, like clothes, nor even hrown like hair, they are generated from within. They do not protect or conceal - if anything they reveal.
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby DaveT » Sun May 15, 2016 1:44 am

I know a man who had a dream in which he saw Adam and Eve walking in the garden of eden, holding hands with Jesus between them. He said they were very bright with light emanating from them, but were visibly naked as well. Not a dream he wrote down since it didn't involve a message to be given publicly. Just one he related verbally. It may be the term "robe of light" is just a term to satisfy the minds of those who can't imagine wearing nothing opaque. God doesn't shock people with things that they can't handle, he words things in a way that they will receive it.

Oh and by the way, Ellen White didn't invent anything. She was shown what she wrote in visions and dreams. That was well proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Her visions were given in such a way as to rule out human source. Which leaves only two other sources, God or the devil. The content of what she wrote rules out the devil as it's source.
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby JimShedd112 » Sun May 15, 2016 8:55 am

One thing to consider is reports of/by people who've experienced a near death experience in which they recall not only hovering above their "lifeless" form but also seeing a bright light ahead of them before being returned to this world. Would this not indicate all heavenly beings and perhaps even the realm emit a bright light?

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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun May 15, 2016 5:32 pm

Petros wrote:Let us consider here.

We have some evidence for people radiating when close to the heavenlies or when coming from such exposure. We do not know the nature of such radiance, but we can assume it is a type of energy with some characteristics like electromagnetic radiation.

Fine. But how would this count, except metaphorically, as a garment orcovering?

When Moses wrote of the aftermath of meeting with God on Mount Sinai to receive the 10 commandments he wrote: 29 ¶And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

From this account we see that whatever this radiance in this report, it appears to be attenuated by the material of a veil which is presumably cloth. Verse 31 shows that Moses was able to get the rulers of the congregation to approach when he called to them so presumably they were able to recognize his general form and voice well enough to follow his instructions, though it is plausible that if his features were shining strong enough they might have had difficulty recognizing him, although the glowing might have been enough to put them off even if they did recognize him.

The simplest explanation consistent with the description would be that it was just a substantial amount of light where it had never been seen before and was not expected to be seen. As I am no great fan of Occham's Razor, especially when the supernatural may be involved, we need not opt for the simplest explanation.
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Petros » Sun May 15, 2016 6:34 pm

As I am no great fan of Occham's Razor, especially when the supernatural may be involved, we need not opt for the simplest explanation.


My heart is lightened.

Have I ever heard anyone but yrs trly expressing less than enthusiasm do Occam?
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Ramblinman » Sun May 15, 2016 8:01 pm

DaveT wrote:I know a man who had a dream in which he saw Adam and Eve walking in the garden of eden, holding hands with Jesus between them. He said they were very bright with light emanating from them, but were visibly naked as well. Not a dream he wrote down since it didn't involve a message to be given publicly. Just one he related verbally. It may be the term "robe of light" is just a term to satisfy the minds of those who can't imagine wearing nothing opaque. God doesn't shock people with things that they can't handle, he words things in a way that they will receive it.

When we are in our resurrection bodies and these bodies are not draped in fabric, we won't be naked in the negative sense of the word.
We won't lack for warmth.
Our skin will not be vulnerable to abrasions.
We won't be mocked.
In that sense we won't be naked.
But it would be a stretch to claim that our bodies, God's greatest creation and now perfected in glory, would be hidden from view.
It is true that some people can't handle this truth, but we won't feel the need for covering, whether of fabric or light.
God's righteousness is sufficient and quite frankly will be all we have "covering" us.

DaveT wrote:Oh and by the way, Ellen White didn't invent anything. She was shown what she wrote in visions and dreams. That was well proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Her visions were given in such a way as to rule out human source. Which leaves only two other sources, God or the devil. The content of what she wrote rules out the devil as it's source.


I would not insist that Satan sent her the visions, many times people sincerely proclaim things from their own imagination that contradict scripture.
Here are some alternative views on this woman and her "prophecies":
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/white.htm
http://ellenwhitefalseprophet.org/
http://nowtheendbegins.com/pages/cults/ ... ts-sda.htm
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun May 15, 2016 8:13 pm

Petros wrote:......my heart is lightened.

Have I ever heard anyone but yrs trly expressing less than enthusiasm do Occam?


Ya, Know, Petros, .....

IF:
-- I ever get up Wisconsin way (plausible, daughter in Saulk Rapids MN)
OR
-- You ever get down SW MO (e.g. Springfield, Branson, Lake of the Ozarks, etc.) We are going to have to meet.

If for no other reason so that our wives can compare notes and commiserate :shock: :roll: :lol: :wink:

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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby MountainDog » Mon May 16, 2016 2:39 am

Ramblinman wrote:Here are some alternative views on this woman and her "prophecies": ...


It it's on the internet, it must be true!
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Petros » Mon May 16, 2016 7:40 am

MountainDog wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:Here are some alternative views on this woman and her "prophecies": ...


It it's on the internet, it must be true!


I believe a rather less flexible and variegated truth than the web provides.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Lets expand Christian Social Nudism - Idea

Postby Petros » Mon May 16, 2016 7:47 am

Bare_Truth wrote:
Petros wrote:......my heart is lightened.

Have I ever heard anyone but yrs trly expressing less than enthusiasm do Occam?


Ya, Know, Petros, .....

IF:
-- I ever get up Wisconsin way (plausible, daughter in Saulk Rapids MN)
OR
-- You ever get down SW MO (e.g. Springfield, Branson, Lake of the Ozarks, etc.) We are going to have to meet.

If for no other reason so that our wives can compare notes and commiserate :shock: :roll: :lol: :wink:

Bare_Truth


We're working toward moving out of Wisconsin, but be that as it may ...
About ten years ago for various business / pleasure reasons we were several time in the Springfield / Branson area, but there is a lot less travel now; but be that as it may...
Quien sabe? it may yet happen. As for our wives - Herself spreads the word. Our niece -the one with the abortive wedding a while back - is involved with a pleasant and very good for her man who is one of us. Herself delights in explaining to Annie precisely how and why her Chris is and must be, with notes on the best way to deal with certain traitsto achieve the best result. I am sure they would work up a very good joint paper for the next issue of the Journal.
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