John Piper on Modesty

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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:55 pm

New_Adventurer wrote:
Women are different. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that when they wear a scoop neck shirt and then bend over, the scoop opens up and all around can see straight down to their navel - and everything in between. My own wife does this. Women truly have a different relationship with their bodies than men do.


last month my wife and I were with a tour group in Liverpool. England, and one night everyone was on their own for dinner. As we were getting ready to cross the street a taxi stopped right I front of us and three young ladies climbed out. They all had interesting and eye-catching short skirts and struggled to get out from the back seat of this big English taxi. What popped into my head was simply this, you can wear a short skirt, you can preserve your modesty, or you can get out of the taxi; pick two. Well they all were wearing short skirts and they all got out and we got an interesting view. My wife's comment was that the knew what they were doing.

If these young ladies were to dispense with skirts altogether, there would be no panty flash as they exit the taxi.
You can't "flash" what is perpetually in view!
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby jochanaan » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:07 pm

Ramblinman wrote:
New_Adventurer wrote:
Women are different. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that when they wear a scoop neck shirt and then bend over, the scoop opens up and all around can see straight down to their navel - and everything in between. My own wife does this. Women truly have a different relationship with their bodies than men do.


last month my wife and I were with a tour group in Liverpool. England, and one night everyone was on their own for dinner. As we were getting ready to cross the street a taxi stopped right I front of us and three young ladies climbed out. They all had interesting and eye-catching short skirts and struggled to get out from the back seat of this big English taxi. What popped into my head was simply this, you can wear a short skirt, you can preserve your modesty, or you can get out of the taxi; pick two. Well they all were wearing short skirts and they all got out and we got an interesting view. My wife's comment was that the knew what they were doing.

If these young ladies were to dispense with skirts altogether, there would be no panty flash as they exit the taxi.
You can't "flash" what is perpetually in view!
:like:
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Petros » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:06 am

But then the peacock [even though he's male]
Would have no tail.

You know the Bronze Age skirt from Denmark?





Flashing is not a new game.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby prairieboy » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:01 am

jasenj1 wrote:http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/bikinis-and-modesty--2

Deep things need to happen in a woman’s and a man’s soul before they have any chance of thinking and feeling about these things in a way that honors God. I will just say this to any woman, any man who dresses inappropriately: Until God has become your treasure, ... until you count everything as loss compared to the supreme value of knowing Christ, your attitude towards your clothing and your appearance will be controlled by forces that don’t honor Christ.


I can agree with this. I would consider it inappropriate to attend church without a shirt on, just as I consider it inappropriate to swim, or sunbath with clothing on (even bikinis, but especially board shorts). Depending, of course, on time and place.
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Ramblinman » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:09 am

prairieboy wrote:
jasenj1 wrote:http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/bikinis-and-modesty--2

Deep things need to happen in a woman’s and a man’s soul before they have any chance of thinking and feeling about these things in a way that honors God. I will just say this to any woman, any man who dresses inappropriately: Until God has become your treasure, ... until you count everything as loss compared to the supreme value of knowing Christ, your attitude towards your clothing and your appearance will be controlled by forces that don’t honor Christ.


I can agree with this. I would consider it inappropriate to attend church without a shirt on, just as I consider it inappropriate to swim, or sunbath with clothing on (even bikinis, but especially board shorts). Depending, of course, on time and place.

I attended worship with some friends a few years back.
One guy arrived with no shirt or shoes, only a pair of ragged cut offs and his hair was 2 feet long, wild scraggly beard. He took a seat and worshiped along with the rest of us.
I am not saying that he should always dress like this, but apparently no one in church that day thought that he should be turned away when he arrived like this.
Jesus really does take us, "Just as I am".
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Petros » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:16 pm

James 2:1-9
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the
kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Seems apropos.
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby jochanaan » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:15 pm

Petros wrote:James 2:1-9
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the
kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Seems apropos.

Yes, it is. :like: Although most modern translations use some other word than "gay." :shock: :lol:
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby DaveT » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:10 pm

When clothing, or covering certain areas of the body from view is seen as a moral thing. Then reducing coverage is seen as sensual. Reduction of coverage is then used by those who have sensual feelings to indulge in those feelings and share them with others. Clear to the totally naked point at strip clubs. On the other hand if naked were a part of common public life and seen as such by everyone. Covering would no longer have a moral connection, and reduction of covering no longer sensual. It would short circuit the pornography and lust issues of society to a great extent. So the enemy has much to gain by pushing being properly clothed as a moral thing. Which goes right along with "who told you that you were naked?" There were only 4 individuals involved. 3 of them present with One asking the question of two. Which leaves only one to be the "who?" who told them in effect "what are you going round naked for? that's lewd, cover yourselves". The father of lies.
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:54 pm

In the KJV the word 'modest' is used only one time and that is in I Timothy 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
In this passage Paul speaks of 'modest apparel' and then describes it. It has nothing to do with nudity, or partial nudity. In fact Paul is saying not to be overdressed to be noticed or to look like someone important.

I Corinthians 11:6 in part says
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:
So should a woman not be uncovered? To get the real meaning we must look at context. I Corinthians 11:5-6
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
So here again nudity or partial nudity has nothing to do with the passage.

Society takes both of these Scripture passages 'in part' and 'out of context', to say the Bible commands we wear clothes.

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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:00 pm

DaveT wrote:When clothing, or covering certain areas of the body from view is seen as a moral thing. Then reducing coverage is seen as sensual. Reduction of coverage is then used by those who have sensual feelings to indulge in those feelings and share them with others. Clear to the totally naked point at strip clubs.


This is one thing that many people have trouble wrapping their minds around:
If women who show lots of cleavage, wear hot pants that reveal a glimpse of buttock, etc.. are shameless hussies using their bodies to seduce men...

Then what does that say about men and women who gather in "colonies" to go completely naked?
Aren't they the most lustful decadent people of all?

I understand why we are misunderstood.
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby DaveT » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:00 am

We are told the path of truth lies so close to the path of error that the difference can be hard to discern. The truth is stranger than fiction. God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform. It does seem totally illogical. That in a society where the less clothing a person wears the more lewd they are seen to be. But when they go all the way and stay that way it suddenly reverses to completely moral. It seems like nonsense. But when we see that it has everything to do with what the mind is allowed to think about, that we can use that nakedness to strengthen our mind control to resist the corrupt thought patterns. (lusting after every body we lay eyes on) And that everybody going naked together has that effect, not just a few on stage. It then starts to make logical sense.
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Bare_Truth » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:43 am

MoNatureMan wrote:......
I Corinthians 11:6 in part says
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:


So should a woman not be uncovered? To get the real meaning we must look at context. I Corinthians 11:5-6
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
So here again nudity or partial nudity has nothing to do with the passage.
AMEN! brother, I most assuredly agree with you on that!
MoNatureMan wrote:Society takes both of these Scripture passages 'in part' and 'out of context', to say the Bible commands we wear clothes.

Say it ain't so Ron :!: :!: :!: . Are there really people who are so inept at exegesis that they ignore the immediate context :?: :!: :?:
In 1Cor 11, Paul wrote: 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Are there really people so inept or so conniving that they cannot see that the topic here is hair on the head. and not clothing ???

Such scripture mishandling/twisting is in the same class as the very laughable (really I thought it was a joke) story about some pastor preaching that women should not wear their hair in a bun because of:
In chapter 24 (see also Luke17:31) Matthew wrote: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
from which he construed "Topknot come down" to be a command.

So as I say, "Say it ain't so :!: :!: :!: " Surely there cannot be those so inept at handling the holy scriptures as to believe, let alone teach!, that 1st Corinthians 11, is saying anything about clothing !!!
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby Petros » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:08 pm

Oh, mon mon, you are no more yesterday's infink than I am, I have to believe you are seeing so many dem kine thinkers as I have.

I'm not telling you they are out there. Nor will I fall down flabbergasted if uou tell me they are.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby nytro » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:22 pm

jochanaan wrote:If God cares how we dress, why didn't He give us some more specific rules? :?:


Now there's a quote that I haven't heard before, but I really like! :like:
Rob
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Re: John Piper on Modesty

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:42 pm

He did for the priests that served in the Temple. Every bit of it had meaning. But other than that, i have to agree, I find no reference in Scripture.

Ron
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