Assistant pastor discovered I'm a nudist

[nytro]

I have always said that if anyone at church ever questions me about me being a nudist, I would not run from it, but I would be honest with them about it.

Well, thanks to accidentally posting a tweet about my "interview" on Naturist Wanderings, and not realizing that I had done that, I got a text message from one of our assistant pastors, saying "Interesting tweet". Once I realized that it was tweeted, I deleted that tweet. I ended up calling him later that day, and told him that, yep, I'm a nudist. He, being a pastor in a conservative baptist church, did what I expected him to do, he said that he would like to meet with me. Here is the link to the interview:

http://www.nakedwanderings.com/2016/11/ ... s-rob-usa/

Well, we met, and of course one of his first comments was that "this is so far out there, that I didn't know who to turn to for advise, so I contacted a friend that is a Christian counselor", his first question to me was, has there ever been any abuse in my life!!! This FLOORED ME! There has never been any abuse in my life. I started developing an interest in nudity as early as an 11 year old, and it's continued to develop from then.

Now this pastor and I are friends, and we were able to talk for about an hour in his office. He listened to what I had to say, but was not in agreement.

Rewind about 8-10 years, while struggling over if I should indeed follow the nudist life, as a Christian, I had been praying for a few years over this. One day while driving to a mid-week service, I was praying, when I heard a voice in my car, saying "I am not concerned with whats on the outside of man, but rather what's inside his heart". I mentioned this to my pastor friend, and he took the stance that "what, now you're a prophet?" I was nervous during this entire meeting, and didn't think about this comment until afterwards, but the voice, which I took as God speaking to me, wasn't giving me a prophecy, but was answering a pray, or in this case, many, many prayers. I will bring this up to him later on. He wants to meet at least 2 more times with me, once just between us, and once with my wife (who fully knows and has joined me at a few nudist clubs/resorts).

He asked me how I had actually come to feel that the nudist lifestyle is something that a Christian, and I told him, that I have studied God's word, trying to find where simple social nudity was a sin, and I found nothing, and in fact I found that Isaiah 20:1-4 actually confirms in my mind that simple social nudity is not a sin (this is where God commands Isaiah to walk naked and barefoot for 3 years, as a sign). I told him that my feeling is, God cannot command someone to sin, and commanding Isaiah to walk naked for 3 years as a sign to others (so he was naked in public), tells me that simply social nakedness or nudity, is not a sin. His reply to this was, "well, why did he have Isaiah walk naked for three years, to show the shame of captivity, and nakedness".

Now to be fair and honest, this all pretty much hit him from the blind side, and he didn't have a chance to really look into what I was saying. He wasn't attacking me, but was trying to defend his "old school" stand that nudity is sinful, period. I'm hoping that our next meeting, he'll may start to see that simple nudity isn't sexual, and that it really isn't any different than other so called "gray areas" in the Christian faith.

He gave me a "home work" assignment, of 4 pages of bible verses and references of nudity/nakedness in the bible, and would like for me to just write down a few words describing just what that verse is saying. There is also an article (I haven't gotten to that part of the package yet) about the subject of nakedness as a Christian.

It was funny, but a few nights ago, I couldn't sleep, following being woken up by my dog. As I was lying in bed, thinking about a few things, this whole subject came to mind, and I was actually firing on all cylinders, thinking of things that I could bring up in our next meeting, however I didn't write anything down, and I ended up going back to sleep. Now I can't remember the items I was coming up with! lol, oh well, they'll come to me.

In the mean time, I could sure use your prayers, as I go in to another meeting with him. At this time, it isn't scheduled, but I'm sure it will be in the next month or so. Specifically I could use clarity of mind, so I can think clearly, bringing out the points that I would like to make, and clearly defend any thing that is brought to me. Also to remember that this pastor is a friend, and is only looking out for my best interest in having me meet with him, and that I don't do anything to hurt that friendship. Also, that I may be willing to listen to what he has to say, because I can't go into the meeting with a predetermined mindset I'm 100% right and he is 100% wrong, and nothing is going to change my mind. I also ask that he will also go into the meeting with that same mindset.

[jochanaan]

Since he's old-school, he'll probably respond best to an old-fashioned Bible study. I suspect that you know as much or more about the relevant Scriptures as he does; go from there.

[Maverick]

I enjoyed reading your interview and about your meeting with your pastor, nytro. I'm praying for you.

[Ramblinman]

Nytro,

I also pray that you two won't talk past one another.
Try to learn what he is against, what he is for and why.
Ask him to do the same.

Does he believe that nudity became sinful in any possible context after humanity fell from grace?
In other words, should a married man never view his wife in the altogether by the light of day?
Should doctors refuse to examine patients because it means that they may see their patient undraped?
What about artists studying life drawing?
What about missionaries who preach the gospel to naked "savages"?
Is it better to let them die in their sins than the missionary inadvertently view them in such a state?

What about mandatory nude baptisms in the early Church?
Baptist theologian Kenneth Scott LaTourette documented this in his book, A History of Christianity.

What about the nude swims at the YMCA? Was that unchristian?
And the boys in Midwestern schools who took swim class nude and even appeared undressed before their families in swim meets?
And the history of mixed nude swimming among working class folk and farm folk in Europe in previous centuries?
The church was very strict in those days, yet silent about it.

And nude swimming in the Roman baths, included Christians of those days.
The bishops of the early church were well aware of this.
While this is not evidence directly from the Bible, it speaks from a time when the Church was still under apostolic guidance.

Is it a sin to believe that the body is created in the image of God?
Is there a powerful spirit being that would try to persuade us that God created something evil when humanity was created?
Is God a pornographer for having done so?

I realize that many people in our day think that nudity is always inherently lewd, but such a viewpoint ignores human history, church history and arguably a few places in the Bible.

I guess even theology students are not getting the whole story, so we have to work patiently with those who only see the perversion on television and judge a matter before they hear it.

He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Proverbs 18:13

[Petros]

Praying of course.

I would not have expected a conservative Baptist [lower case c or upper case C? I have had some dealings with Conservative Baptists] to respond well to claims of personal messaging from God.

Whatever - there you are and where he and you will be is still hidden in the mists.

The incident ties in closely with some recent conversations from Number 1 Son, who reading this would tell you this was no more an accident than his recent car crash [no human damage done. The plan is in place.

[Ramblinman]

Praying of course.

I would not have expected a conservative Baptist [lower case c or upper case C? I have had some dealings with Conservative Baptists] to respond well to claims of personal messaging from God.

It depends upon context. Most Baptists, even those most inclined to follow the strict Dispensationalism of Scofield, would agree that one must "hear" the tug of the Holy Spirit to come to salvation. That is not the same as an audible voice or a silent voice with distinctly worded instructions, but such is a difference of degree rather than a radical difference in kind.
Still, churches split over such subtlties and claims and counterclaims reach the point where folks shout, Heretic!!" at one another across the pews.

Christians universally argue that a perceived message from God cannot contradict scripture.
Amazing how some churches will concoct a doctrine that clearly DOES violate scripture, yet claim that it is harmonious with scripture, provided that one interpret it rightly.

And conversely, a message from God can be rejected because it contradicts the pastor's interpretation, rather than contradicting the Bible itself.

A wise pastor will accept a certain amount of gray areas, points where we agree on the fundamentals, but agree to disagree on things gray.
My church teaches water baptism, for instance as one of a Christian's first acts of testimony to faith, but stresses that water baptism is not salvific, but simply bespeaks the innner baptism that is salvific. However, we have a wide degree of latitude about the exact mode of baptism, whether it be immersion, effusion, sprinkling, our pastors will flex with you.
We baptize infants. I am not keen on that, but am not persuaded that I need to leave the denomination over this. I speak out against it in Bible class and among friends from church, but make my case politely. No one likes too much vinegar in their salad, nor in my speech.

[c.o.]

Hy nytro ,

There has been some excellent input here.

One day while driving to a mid-week service, I was praying, when I heard a voice in my car, saying "I am not concerned with whats on the outside of man, but rather what's inside his heart". I mentioned this to my pastor friend, and he took the stance that "what, now you're a prophet?"

This is the most surprising thing you wrote about your discussion with your friend, a pastor.

Yes, you ARE a prophet to the extent that you speak words from God, and nothing that "voice in [your] car" said to you is something God hasn't said, nothing Jesus hasn't said, and nothing that is not clearly indicated in different words, in Scripture, from thousands of years ago. It is something your friend, the pastor, would do very well to heed.

May the Lord give you clarity, wisdom, grace, gentleness, love and peace as you look forward to your next meeting!

[nytro]

Hi all, thanks for your input, due to time constraints, I was only able to check in here today, and post this quick reply, but I'll check back in later this weekend.

[nudie66]

...his first question to me was, has there ever been any abuse in my life!!! This FLOORED ME!

Hello Nytro... I had a very similar experience back when I was married to a previous wife.

I was also around 11-12 when I discovered I enjoyed being nude, and during my teens years, also went skinnydipping in my parents' above-ground pool when there were no neighbors around.

Fast-forward to the last decade (2000's) when I started to become much more vocal about social nudity to my then-wife. Her response was similar to your assistant pastor's. She was so appalled that I'd even mention a nude beach or modeling nude in front of a group of artists that she started to belittle me to her close relatives, who all see social nudity as being equal with pornography. One day, her and I went to visit a nearby aunt and uncle of hers, with another close aunt there also. They spent the visit trying to determine the cause of my "ungodly" interest in seeing naked people and being naked. One aunt actually asked me if I had ever been sexually abused as a child. When I said No, she tried to convince me that it was okay to admit it, no matter how painful the memories may be. She went on to describe her own childhood abuses, hoping that by her opening up, I would feel more willing to express my own "trauma". In reality, I just sat there, listening to her go on and on, thinking, I just enjoy being nude! The other aunt was also concerned over what she thought was an unhealthy obsession of mine to be taking art classes with nude models, but when I clarified her misunderstanding by saying that I was the model, she almost fell over backward.

My at-the-time wife also took her disgust of my comfortableness with nudity to our senior pastor (who is an awesomely cool guy in his 60's who I've been close with since 1995). He made it clear to her that modeling nude in a controlled setting like an art class is not pornography, because there is obviously no sexual activity involved, but she didn't want to hear it. The most bizarre thing about the whole marriage (and that decade), was that to get back at me for being so interested in social nudity, the wife decided to have an affair behind my back which lasted for years. I finally left for that reason in 2010.

Thankfully, I am now married to a wonderful lady from the Bahamas who is a home/indoor nudist, however she has joined me by going topless at Gunnison Beach in NJ and at Sunny Rest in PA.

[Jim]

One aunt actually asked me if I had ever been sexually abused as a child. When I said No, she tried to convince me that it was okay to admit it, no matter how painful the memories may be. She went on to describe her own childhood abuses, hoping that by her opening up, I would feel more willing to express my own "trauma".

The person in our church most hostile to my family's naturist interests is a woman with recovered memories of childhood sexual abuse. There may be deep fears connected to nudity arising from abuse.

Of course, some of these folks are sure you've just repressed the memories. They believer that with proper therapy you can remember. Probably so, even if such events never happened.

[jochanaan]

If logic, reasoning, Bible exposition and personal testimony won't convince them... Somehow, we've got to get past those emotional defenses, and usually that doesn't happen with intellectual reasoning. Of course, we could leave it alone -- but my spiritual sense is telling me that such people are actually causing many in the Body of Christ to stumble. This is unacceptable. More and more, I feel that we Christian nudists are being called to speak, and to act, to save the churches from the egregious errors that come from false beliefs about ourselves and our God-shaped bodies.

[prairieboy]

If logic, reasoning, Bible exposition and personal testimony won't convince them... Somehow, we've got to get past those emotional defenses, and usually that doesn't happen with intellectual reasoning. Of course, we could leave it alone -- but my spiritual sense is telling me that such people are actually causing many in the Body of Christ to stumble. This is unacceptable. More and more, I feel that we Christian nudists are being called to speak, and to act, to save the churches from the egregious errors that come from false beliefs about ourselves and our God-shaped bodies.

I agree. I believe that we are being called out to speak up. I am not sure why, or just what the message will be, but I believe it is coming. Maybe God is just tired of His church being ashamed of His image.

I posted about telling my pastor. He is an awesome pastor, and a good listener and counsellor. I expect him to ask me about it as the weather becomes warmer. I know that he would be more comfortable if I stopped, but that isn't happening. I will stop (I think) if the church (pastor & elders) tell me to stop. I will tell them that I expect God take up my (His) cause, He will. I will remind them that man's first act after joining satan's camp was to produce coverings for themselves. I will ask them why do they think that satan was so against man's nakedness. Hopefully I will be able to end the meeting on that note, and ask them to respond after they have had time to prayerfully consider their answer.

[DaveT]

As for God speaking to people, that is part of being a believer in God; "And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left." Isa.30:21

As for validity for nude living. Other than all the biblical proof, there's the simple unanswerable argument that asks; "Would God make something that is sinful to look at?" It's lust and sexual sins that have messed up our thought process on the subject, kick sin out of the picture and nudity becomes innocent and harmless, and even beneficial sometimes. Especially beneficial in respect to training our minds to see it as non lustful. Which is exactly what it does when we go round without clothes a lot. The very best cure for lust is to spend much time where there are lots of naked people around and lust is forbidden. It forces the mind to cancel out lust thought patterns, and pretty soon the lust habit disappears. To say that nudity automatically inspires lust is to say that God created something that is sinful to look at. In reality nudity automatically inspires lust only when our minds are trained that way, it's part of overcoming sin to cancel that thought connection and train our minds in a different channel.

Another question that can be asked is; What would have happened if sin had never happened? The obvious answer is: We'd have a whole world full of innocent naked people living and working together with not a hint of sin. So it was God who invented naturism (or nudism) it was sin that destroyed it. The whole goal of the plan of salvation is to get rid of sin and bring back the original lifestyle. Therefore to try to create just a hint of that lifestyle while still on this corrupt world should be very Christian compatible thing to do. In the same category with planting a garden and eating the fruit of it. Why people think it isn't is the real mystery. Their thinking is all twisted up and backwards on the subject, having thrown nudity and selfish lust of sex into the same basket, throwing out the baby with the bath water as it were.

[Ramblinman]

A fair-minded, but poorly educated pastor might Google "nudist" and we could hardly blame him for believing the "Fake News" about us.
Some horrifying lewd photos will fill his computer screen.

With time, the truth about good nudity can be found, but it doesn't come at first glance and we as a culture seem to be too busy to take the time to find the truth.

[Ramblinman]

Dave, the Churches of America and a few other places have tried and failed miserably to deal with the question of nudity as they raise their children.
Christian naturism holds the answer.
A pity that the truth is so unpopular!