Three inalienable rights and responsibilies

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Three inalienable rights and responsibilies

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:10 am

Before you jump to conclusions, no, I don't think I posted this to the worng section...

In a recent blog post, Steven Sizer wrote the following:

I believe we have three inalienable rights from God which no government can legislate against:

1. The right to express our faith in God
2. The right to change our faith in God
3. The right to share our faith in God

I believe we have three inalienable responsibilities from God which no government can legislate against:

1. The responsibility to respect the expression of faith in God
2. The responsibility to defend those who change their faith in God
3. The responsibility to learn from those who share their faith in God

See: 15 Years in Jail: Egyptian family charged for attempting to restore Christian names
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Three inalienable rights and responsibilies

Postby Johannes_1965 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:05 am

This situation in Egypt of no religious freedom is getting even worse after the Muslim brother's takeover of political power. The Copts (Egyptian orthodox Christians) are strongly persecuted and denied religious rights.

The concept of religious freedom as an unalienable right is a typically Christian one, not at all shared this way by Islam. There is no right to change your faith in Islam, only a right to become Muslim and to share or impose it on others:
a one-way street.
Johannes
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit..."
(John 15,5)
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Re: Three inalienable rights and responsibilies

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:16 am

Johannes_1965 wrote:This situation in Egypt of no religious freedom is getting even worse after the Muslim brother's takeover of political power. The Copts (Egyptian orthodox Christians) are strongly persecuted and denied religious rights.

The concept of religious freedom as an unalienable right is a typically Christian one, not at all shared this way by Islam. There is no right to change your faith in Islam, only a right to become Muslim and to share or impose it on others:
a one-way street.
Johannes


I agree, the situation for the Coptic Christians is not good and probably will likely as not, get worse without some sort of outcry. On the other hand, more and more people of Islam are turning to Christ, not through the witness of Christians but through the witness of visions. This isn't a recent thing, it's been happening for 20 years.

I don't believe the quote above is implying the political freedom to worship but, like Daniel in the Old Testament, in spite of the of the political freedom or lack of freedom.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Three inalienable rights and responsibilies

Postby Johannes_1965 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 am

bn2bnude wrote:I agree, the situation for the Coptic Christians is not good and probably will likely as not, get worse without some sort of outcry. On the other hand, more and more people of Islam are turning to Christ, not through the witness of Christians but through the witness of visions. This isn't a recent thing, it's been happening for 20 years.

I don't believe the quote above is implying the political freedom to worship but, like Daniel in the Old Testament, in spite of the of the political freedom or lack of freedom.


Thanks for this great article. I read two books about the miracle and drama of an Egyptian Muslim coming to faith in Christ and in the end passing his/her life elsewhere. In those testimonies it becomes also clear that after the first private revelation by Christ the Church has to play its role in teaching and giving sacraments.
St. Paul as a persecutor of the Church first saw and heard Christ before Damascus, then received Baptism and tradition by the Church (Acts 9,17-18; 1Cor 15,3-5) and was to be killed by fanatic Jews of his time: a very similar story.

In the quote above the claim to political freedom is implied in the first sentence:
"I believe we have three inalienable rights from God which no government can legislate against..."

The problem is that a majority of nations legislate against inalienable rights and even our former Christian nations do so more and more. Then we still have the inner freedom to stay faithful to Christ in the situation of persecution.
Johannes
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit..."
(John 15,5)
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Re: Three inalienable rights and responsibilies

Postby vycna » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:30 pm

Yes, the inalienable rights with which we are made are what are naturally ours. There are governments that may repress them, but doing so amounts to taking from us what is rightfully ours. Islamic nations in the middle east, and several others, are prone to doing this. Christians are vulnerable to persecution, and violence, from this, along with some others. We know of Jews and Gypsies subject to such through times in history. It has happened to a number of people for their sexual preference as well. In American society and I think some others there were times of raids on nudist assemblies. Any group in any way different is subject to intolerance, regardless if they are going in a healthier direction. This is the case with vegetarians who have faced hostile reaction without understanding. The strength of what is known as the American experiment is with recognizing inalienable rights providing for them constiutionally with freedom to practice what is according to conscience, this tolerance must be fostered still, so that society does not degenerate, with the freedom permitted with tolerance, Christianity would flourish in that, and opportunity for betterment in this world.
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