Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby MoNatureMan » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:47 pm

And your point is...
There may be better ways to handle things as Christians.

However
It is because of complacent Christianity that America is where it is today.

We (Christians and the Church) have been politically correct and surrendered the government, the schools, the media, our society and yes even many denominations to the enemy. No I am not talking about people. I am talking about the devil that hates God and is using people to do his dirty work.

Most of us on this website know of the Christian foundation of this country. We know how for many years America followed Christian principles. (and yes we all know of the mistakes America has made)

Many of us get frustrated with what is happening to our counrty. We have seen America fall from greatness to an anti-God society heading for destruction. We cry out to God. We weep. Many of us have seen all this happen in our lifetime. Many can remember a Christian morality in America.

Are we better then Christians in other countries that have given their lives for Christ. Of course not. But we as American Christians were trusted with a government .and society that (though it may not have been Christian) honored God and His Word. Jesus Christ was not censored.

How many souls have been and will be lost because we as Christians have allowed America to be sanitized from 'offensive Christianity'? How many people have had there minds cleansed from those 'stories about right and wrong and a supreem being'. Pardon my bluntness but the blood of America and many lost souls is at the feet of the people that call themself Christains but love this world more then God.

In Him
Ron
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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby Petros » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:21 am

When my brother expresses concern that "Christians" are going to brainwash children [oh, the lost souls, though he would not say that out lous] and destroy science and the planet and put humanity back into savagery AND in the process ruib him, his livelihood, and ther love of his life, I marvel. How can he have so little faith? How can he doubt that the human drive toward understanding the universe could surive any onslaught? How can he think his religion stands or falls on ONE theory in ONE area of research?

I wonder the same when I hear Christians bemoaning the loss of souls if naturalistic science is taught.

Is God asleep? Or can he and will he find his own and quicken the human drive toward knowing him, the God-shaped hole, as he did with me?

How did Christianity survive under pagan and occasionally persecuting Rome, under Islam, under actively atheist Communism?

Under a government sympathetic to Christianity, Christians are freer to be visible and the number of "Christians" rises, as church membership conveys social standing.

Under a government unsympathetic to Christianity, nonChristians, anti-Christians are freer to be visible and it becomes trendy to be a vocal atheist.

But in both cases, dare we doubt that God is sovereign and will have the Church he wants?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby bn2bnude » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:06 am

MoNatureMan wrote:And your point is...
There may be better ways to handle things as Christians.

However
It is because of complacent Christianity that America is where it is today.

We (Christians and the Church) have been politically correct and surrendered the government, the schools, the media, our society and yes even many denominations to the enemy. No I am not talking about people. I am talking about the devil that hates God and is using people to do his dirty work.

Most of us on this website know of the Christian foundation of this country. We know how for many years America followed Christian principles. (and yes we all know of the mistakes America has made)

I know the argument that America is (or was) a Christian Nation. I also know the argument that it was created on "Christian Principles".

That is, I believe, part of the lie and reason for the feeling of entitlement among many Christians. God got out of the government business a long time ago when Israel fell.

MoNatureMan wrote:Many of us get frustrated with what is happening to our country. We have seen America fall from greatness to an anti-God society heading for destruction. We cry out to God. We weep. Many of us have seen all this happen in our lifetime. Many can remember a Christian morality in America.

Our country hasn't acted "Christian" since it's outset. I would suggest that it's to a point now, however, that it's not just a particular part of the culture benefiting. In other words, it's affecting you and me now rather than the guy down the street who doesn't look exactly like me.

MoNatureMan wrote:Are we better then Christians in other countries that have given their lives for Christ. Of course not. But we as American Christians were trusted with a government .and society that (though it may not have been Christian) honored God and His Word. Jesus Christ was not censored.

And, for the most part, he still isn't. Maybe not as open as before but not censored. Some of that is the community you live in, however. I remember the valedictorian this year who was told not to bring God into his speech but did anyway. A kid with a lot of guts and conviction. On the other hand, was there a better way to do this besides defying the authorities? The problem with these sorts of actions is that next time, there will be stiffer processes in place to fight it.
MoNatureMan wrote:How many souls have been and will be lost because we as Christians have allowed America to be sanitized from 'offensive Christianity'? How many people have had there minds cleansed from those 'stories about right and wrong and a supreme being'. Pardon my bluntness but the blood of America and many lost souls is at the feet of the people that call themselves Christians but love this world more then God.

In Him
Ron

There is a quote out there that is very true. "God has no grandchildren". Since the 50s (and I've seen the complaints first hand), churches have complained about loosing young people. Whether you call it complacency, bad practices or something else, as a whole, we Christians have made the same mistakes as those hundreds of years before, assuming that government and religion are good bedfellows. They are not and rarely have been. As you can see in politics now, religion has become the harlot and yes, that includes the church at times. What that leads to, however, is our children (or in my case, my generation so now adults) come into our prime with an attitude of entitlement -- because I am a Christian... No different, really, than the health and prosperity preachers who say "Because I am a Christian, God promised that I would never get sick, etc.

You mention the lost souls due to complacency. I would suggest that it is due to a self absorbed church -- another word for entitlement. Rather than bothering to build relationships to spread the gospel, we've put evangelism "on the fast track" with crusades and hoping that the t-shirt I am wearing will have people running up and saying "tell me about Jesus". It may happen but the side effects are being seen now. Because of the lack of relationships, we are also lacking in discipleship. We assume that because we are largely Christian, I really don't need to read Scriptures, I'll let the priest/pastor tell me what it really says.

Our churches are worse in many respects than the world around us. In the past year alone, I know of 3 or 4 churches that have pastors dismissed because of sexual sin (one was the largest independent baptist church in the country). I've heard that the divorce rate among Christians is higher than those who don't claim Christianity. Our churches are as broken as the culture around them.

Part of the reason for the reaction that started this strip is not because there is an agenda against Christianity, it's because many Christians believe that being the bully is godly -- more entitlement.

I know I am the minority voice many times here. I also know that you will likely not change your beliefs today -- it's just not in our human nature.

I will challenge you, however, not to come around to my beliefs but to start asking God to start showing you where you need to change what you believe. It can be belief changing, however. It was for me.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby jochanaan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:21 am

bn2bnude, you may be in a minority here, but you're not alone. :) I'm with Petros too: Is our faith so weak that it can't survive challenges or even the iron-sharpening process of civil debate?

I'd also like to add that, in my study of history, real Christianity seems to function best as a counter-culture. Even in the days of the "Holy Roman Empire" (not very holy :?), there were groups like the Waldenses/Vaudois who, in direct contrast to the Roman Catholic hierarchy, believed God and practiced Christianity yet refused the authority of Rome. And was not England, from whom we "upstart colonists" revolted, also very much a "Christian nation," to the extent of Church and State being united under one monarch?

No, I am not saying we should not pray for our country, nor that our leaders should not use Christian principles. But if our country "goes to hell in a handbasket," it will not be because our laws and leaders do not affirm Christian principles--but because our people do not live by them. Including the Christian principle of loving our neighbors and even our "enemies" as ourselves.
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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby Petros » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:50 pm

Amen
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby MoNatureMan » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:24 am

I know my post was bold but there were also some words put into my mouth (per say).

bn2bnude
Yes you are 'young'.
I can easily think back to a time when America was more moral. You could not even curse on TV or Radio. Did that make it a Christian nation - No way. Oh and abortion (the MURDER of unborn babies) was not legal. And by the way homosexuality was considered as the Bible says - bad news. Yes if you desired, you could pray in school - was that a violation of the Constitution - no way. Churches were much fuller then they are today. You could send your children to college, without the concern that the college would do everything they could to destroy your child's faith in God. Was America moral to be moral - No. It was the Christian influence on society.

I didn't speak entitlements. I was speaking of what has happened to America and why and is the church at least partly to blame. I believe to a large extent it is.

You said God got out of the government business. I am aware that He did not even want Israel to have a king (government), but allowed it. But why do you have such a hard time believing that God would answer prayer? We all know that the founding fathers of this nation were not perfect - neither are we. But to claim that God will not bless and help a nation (or people) that honor Him, seek His Will, and honor His Word is lacking Biblical substance. Provers 14:34

And no I didn't say to throw all science out the window. But how about allowing TRUE science instead of some of the man-made created science that is nothing but a hoax to brainwash people into disbelieving in God.

I will just make one claim again and please make a logical rebuttal.
We as the church (Christians) in America allowed people that hated God (I could name some if you like) to take over the leadership of the education of America's children. It is taught that there is no absolute right or wrong (goes against God's Word). Students have been encouraged to develop their own set of values and to ignore those of their parents and church. I know of a case where the public school took a student (without parental permission or knowledge) to have an abortion. Something went wrong and the parents were stuck with the bill. (You can make your own comment about that.) The anti-God theory of evolution is taught as fact using known flawed examples. While there is just as much (if not more) evidence of creation it is not allowed in the classroom because it points to a god. These few of many examples are nothing but brainwashing. They are a violation of parental rights and a purposeful attack against the Bible. What are the results? Church going is at an all time low in America. Sins like homosexuality are normalized. Teen suicide all time high. Divorce in and out of the church at all time high. Couples living together without being married all time high. Can't forget that we have murdered so many unborn babies, it makes Hitler look like a choir boy. Need I say more. What we have allowed the children of America to be taught is one of the reasons for the moral decline of America and it's turning from God. According to research over 65 percent of children that called themselves Christian had quit going to church when they graduated from high school.
Matthew 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby Bare_Truth » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:36 pm

I am going to take a little different tack on this. We are steadily moving toward a time when one will have to be quiet about their religion and will be expected to place it second to their employment and civic duties. We are not there yet but we are headed that way. I retired in 2007 but just a few years before that, between semesters I and one of my muslim colleagues were in his office taking a little down time from the work we were doing to prep for our classes for the next semester. We were not even required to be there we were just doing it because we were dedicated to our calling as educators. So we took a break and were chatting in his office. The topic was a comparison of our religous practices, there was no evangization in our goals, we were just trying to understand each others culture.

The dean happened to walk by and overhear us and stuck his head in the door and gruffly and indignantly said "You can't talk about that here!" (His precise words). A few weeks later at the end of my performance appraisal I informed him that
-- his intemperate statement had been totally out of line.
-- intimidating particularly to my colleague,
and that
-- I had felt compelled to obtain the advice of a lawyer on the matter should he choose to make that mistake again.

I did not really get an apology but he did indicate that he would try to mend the bridge with my colleague (he particularly needed him on a grant proposal). My point in raising this is that I do not believe that a decade earlier that any administrator would likely have been emboldened enough to have made such an ill advised claim at a public university. The humanists would simply love to have people prohibited from showing anything of religious symbolism.

He had included an accusation that I might have been wasting class time on such topics which I hadn't, (although he had employed a temporary substitute professor who used an entire lecture in an engineering class debating with the students if the "alien autopsy" on television the previous week was real or not.

It was only a month or so ago that I believe I heard of a wall mart check out being told that she could not wear a simple crucifix necklace unless it was entirely covered under her clothing. Of course the store sold such things in the jewlery department. Does an employer have a right to establish such standards, well plausibly, however a couple of decades ago it would have generally been considered outrageous for any employer to make such a demand.

Yep! you will have a hard time convincing me that things are going down hill and the occurances of such things are legion, Some of them are down right belittling and abusive toward our kids, (e.g. the case in a grade school where the assignment was to write a one page paper of who your hero was and kids were writing about superman spiderman and read it to the class. The girl who wrote a paper about Jesus being her hero came up to the front of the room and started whereupon the teacher grabbed her paper away, tore it up and told her to write a different one. The teacher was not fired! That would never have happened a decade or so ago in any school I was aware of.
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Re: Christians classified as Terrorists by Obama Administration

Postby Petros » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:16 pm

Mind if I ask what dept and what style institution? Your dean sounds a tad antsier than what I have known in Ling in land grant colleges - though vdery close to an area studies chair I knew.

There seems to be an escalating paranoia focussed on the possibility of PC challenges, lawsuits. etc., leading to a proactive self-policing.

So much for freedom of speech and inquiry.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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