Christian or Counterfeit

What does Christ teach about the issues of life? Make sure you back up your opinions with scripture, and always be courteous and polite in talking with others.<P>Only Permanent and Native Residents may post here.

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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:36 am

Just a note:

We are trained to see it as a horrid repressive thing if we ask the unmarried and homosexuals [for some perhaps even the married] to abstain from sex.

What, pray tell, do we say to those whose rage impels them to murder, the child abuser, the kleptomaniac, the alcoholic, the obese, and those with a drive to be nude in public?

Why is abstinence the recommended soultion in some cases and near anathema in others?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:48 am

Petros wrote:Just a note:

We are trained to see it as a horrid repressive thing if we ask the unmarried and homosexuals [for some perhaps even the married] to abstain from sex.

What, pray tell, do we say to those whose rage impels them to murder, the child abuser, the kleptomaniac, the alcoholic, the obese, and those with a drive to be nude in public?

Why is abstinence the recommended soultion in some cases and near anathema in others?

The argument made in favor of blessing homosexual activity is that if you fall in love with a person of your own sex, if the relationship is deep enough to warrant it, you should express that love with sodomy or some sort of sexual contact.

It seems that the Church asking parishioners with a same-sex lover to refrain from sex may be unrealistic.
I know of one such couple, two Baptist men who lived as "roommates", wanted to refrain, but kept slipping back into sexual activity again and again.

So what is the natural outcome of this sort of struggle?
They either abandon biblical precepts and start saying "Gay is good" no matter how much the Bible teaches against it or (preferably) they do the admittedly difficult task of moving apart, and breaking off this destructive entanglement.

One of the guys was somewhat bi-sexual and had a girlfriend, but she got tired of being second fiddle to his "roommate" and she eventually broke it off.

Perhaps the Church should be discouraging people inclined to same-sex orientation from forming these love interests in the first place.
If we would quit walking along the edge of the cliff, we might fall off cliffs far less often!
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby natman » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:37 am

While we are on the topic, this came up this morning. Apparently Denmark has no separation of Church and state clause...
http://eaglerising.com/6712/government- ... -marriage/

Government Forces Churches To Perform Gay Marriage
By Onan Coca / 11 June 2014

I don’t want to say I told you so… but I told you so.

The logical outcome of legislating gay marriage (making it legal or illegal) is that the church will be forced into involving itself in gay marriages. And I do mean FORCED.

Marriage has nothing to do with law. At least it shouldn’t. It’s a covenant, a promise, between a man and a woman and God. When we allowed the government into the proceedings… things got murky.

We’ve been watching over the last couple of years as gay couples have begun suing Christian businesses for refusing to take part in gay wedding ceremonies, and we’ve been surprised. Why? How could we be surprised by this? This has been the entire point of the whole exercise. The media and the gay fascist movement never cared about marriage “equality.” That was a sham. Gay couples have had legal recourse to enjoy the same privileges heterosexual married couples do for years! Perhaps there was a bit more paperwork involved, but it was far from difficult for a gay couple to have “equality.”

Then the civil union movement swept through our state governments and made things even easier… and yet the gay community and the media acted as if there was still inequality. It was all a sham. A lie perpetrated by the fascist left.

The real point has always been power. To get power, the left had to win the culture, and to win the culture they had to marginalize conservatives… and they are succeeding.

The first case of a Western government forcing a church to act against its religious values has finally happened, as we said it must.

Denmark has just passed a law that will force churches to participate in gay wedding ceremonies.

gay marriageThe country's parliament voted through the new law on same-sex marriage by a large majority, making it mandatory for all churches to conduct gay marriages…

Karsten Nissen, the Bishop of Viborg, who is refusing to carry out the ceremonies, has warned that the new law risks "splitting the church".

If you think, “It can’t happen here,” you haven’t been paying attention my friend. Our close friend and allies in Britain may soon be with Denmark, forcing their churches to participate in something that is fundamentally opposed to the Bible’s teaching.

In Britain, churches can “opt-out” of being forced to conduct gay weddings. But the homosexual community isn’t happy with that… so they are suing to FORCE ALL CHURCHES to conduct gay ceremonies!

But homosexual couple Barrie and Tony Drewitt-Barlow have set out to demolish that protection for churches because it stands in the way of their coveted church wedding.

“It upsets me because I want it so much—a big lavish ceremony, the whole works.” The duo filed a lawsuit against the Church of England, demanding that the court compel all Anglican churches to conduct same-sex wedding ceremonies in their houses of worship. We’ve launched a challenge to the Government’s decision to allow some religious groups to opt out of marrying same-sex couples.”

Do you get the gravity of this? Do you understand what is happening?

They have the legal right to marry and churches who wish to participate in those ceremonies can do so… but now they want to force the churches who disagree with them to also participate!

Again, if you think this can’t happen in America… then you don’t understand where we get our legal traditions and our positions on liberty from. We learned it all from England… they have the same cultural, legal and moral traditions that we do. If it can happen there, of course it can happen here.

liberty

Dear readers, we are losing the battle for our liberties.

It’s about more than the anti-God nature of the gay marriage debate. It’s also about our nation turning from freedom to fascism.

The desires of some (the gay community) mean more than the rights of others (the Christian community). In Denmark, freedom of religion has just been abolished… legally… by the people. Do you get that?

If this happens in America, many of us will be forced into underground churches. Will we, like our Chinese brothers and sisters, be forced to practice our faith in the dark?

How are we letting this happen?

Why won’t our so called conservative Republican leaders help us stop the madness? Could it be that they aren’t as conservative as we thought? Could it be that the years of voting for the lesser of two evils is coming back to haunt us now? For every Ted Cruz and Rand Paul who will stand boldly for religious freedom, we have five or six politicians like John Boehner and Lindsey Graham who blow with the wind and only act in their own interests. We did that. We elected these double-minded, weak, so called “conservatives.”

It’s time to make up for those mistakes. We must stop supporting these yellow belly Republicans and demand that they start supporting us.

We cannot save our liberty with these people leading us.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:52 pm

They can't lead us if we don't follow.

But if most of the traffic follows the bandwagon around the bend, the drivers who want to keep going straight may get into difficulties.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Bare_Truth » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:52 pm

They have the legal right to marry and churches who wish to participate in those ceremonies can do so… but now they want to force the churches who disagree with them to also participate!

So let me see ...... That would mean that a fundamentalist mosque would be required to do this also, wouldn't it??? What is that going to look like on the evening news??? :roll: . Will it finally become the wedge issuer by which muslims are sent packing? Or does it mean that muslims will come "packing", (as in "packing heat" ! :shock: ) ?
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby prairieboy » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:01 pm

One of these days it will become a reality for all those churches registered as 501(c)3. It will be more difficult to enforce on the rest of the churches.
Much of what Onan Coca said is valid. However, while the church has transformed culture before, it is usually done with prayer and proclaiming the gospel, not by petitioning the government. When the church transforms culture by other means it often turns out wrong. In my mind I picture the residential schools here in Canada, priests marching in with the conquistadors elsewhere, and the Spanish inquisition.
I am not downplaying the importance of government. Government is important, and we need Christians to choose wisely who they vote for. We need Christians in politics, at all levels, from knocking on doors, up to the highest offices. Unfortunately so many Christians now have their beliefs tainted that even having Christians in office is no guarantee.

Why does the picture of two men, or two women, standing before the altar bother you so much? Are you offended because they are going against a belief of yours, maybe forcing you to accept something you don't want to accept. Or does it bother you because you love them, because your heart is crying out, "Stop. There is something better. Jesus came so that you could have life, and have it abundantly, and that is not it." Do we believe that? Can we offer them something better, more satisfying, than a love filled, caring relationship? The pastor in the video couldn't, but can I? can you?
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:25 am

I speak here FOR myself AS didymist reasoner, anything said in this post has zero validity except as the Spirit backs it up.

No comment HERE on God's standpoint on marriage and on homodsexuality. But it is a valuable datum that just about any culture I have heard of has a definition of marriage, pretty much all have negative attitudes toward certain styles of adultery, robbery, murder, a plurality have a sense of some styles of homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia as neither normal nor approved.

Any individual; Christian will of course walk speak act as the Spirit dirrects. But for the Church there is a fine line - we are not to encourage society to act - including legistlating -counter to God's law, nor are we to discourage the following of God's law.

I understand my bil's desire to maintain his state licensed homosexual relationship - which has I must say worn better than many a heterosexual coupling. I understand my dear friend's [tragic] decision to abort. But I do not feel that I, to the extent I represent the church, can or should recognize either of those or certain bits in my own past as good.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:46 am

Petros wrote:...But I do not feel that I, to the extent I represent the church, can or should recognize either of those or certain bits in my own past as good.

Imagine this scenario:
The state will prohibit you from teaching that same-sex sex acts are sinful in the eyes of God, even forbidding you to read aloud passages of scripture that say so.
The state will force you to perform same-sex weddings.
Perhaps more importantly, a deluded enraged crowd will picket your church demanding that you leave town, stop preaching the truth (although they will say you are preaching lies).
Other than than, we will have complete religious freedom.
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby MoNatureMan » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:09 am

Once again look at history.
When Hitler took control, you preached as he wanted. Cross became the swastika and the Bible was replaced by Hitlers book (English title), My Story.
Christians need to be involved in government or we come up with things like that.

Ron
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:59 pm

Mein Kampf = My Struggle [not quite Jihad] but no big deal.

How many times been faced with the choice:

shut up or get out [IF those are choices, which they need not be] or speak out and pay the price?

How often has the church, by getting involved in the process, made any real headway against the opposition?

I am a didymist, and perhaps most skeptical about the political process. Thin Las Vegas - the housed does not lose.

I do trust God and count on prajer.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:01 pm

Ramblinman:

"The state will ...,"

Why future tense? There is a reason I left the U.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:08 am

Petros wrote:Mein Kampf = My Struggle [not quite Jihad] but no big deal.

How many times been faced with the choice:

shut up or get out [IF those are choices, which they need not be] or speak out and pay the price?

How often has the church, by getting involved in the process, made any real headway against the opposition?

I am a didymist, and perhaps most skeptical about the political process. Thin Las Vegas - the housed does not lose.

I do trust God and count on prajer.

You should also be a didymist about reacting the same way in every situation.

Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say. Exodus 4:12

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. Matthew 10:19 (also see Luke 12:11)
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:05 am

Like I react the same. By me is didymism a style, not a rule. I have had my moments before Pilate and - mutandis mutatis - even my temple tantrums [Herself would not approve, but I thought it cute.

And when the Spirit says prophesy I open my mouth. What else can we?
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:59 am

Petros wrote:Like I react the same. By me is didymism a style, not a rule. I have had my moments before Pilate and - mutandis mutatis - even my temple tantrums [Herself would not approve, but I thought it cute.

And when the Spirit says prophesy I open my mouth. What else can we?

Also sprach Martin Luther, "Hier stehe ich. Gott helfe mir. Ich kann nicht anders".

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. John 15:20
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby MoNatureMan » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:38 pm

Bare_Truth
They have the legal right to marry and churches who wish to participate in those ceremonies can do so… but now they want to force the churches who disagree with them to also participate!

So let me see ...... That would mean that a fundamentalist mosque would be required to do this also, wouldn't it??? What is that going to look like on the evening news??? :roll: . Will it finally become the wedge issuer by which muslims are sent packing? Or does it mean that muslims will come "packing", (as in "packing heat" ! :shock: ) ?


They will be exempt.

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