Christian moral values vs societal and political moral value

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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:41 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:
Petros wrote:..... Simpson and Sampson should be restored to the shelves and made required reading.
Never Heard of it. Elaborate please.

Is this it?

http://www.amazon.com/Story-Simpson-Sampson-Munro-Leaf/dp/0208022449
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby Petros » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:30 am

Yes, that is it.

Wonderful book from my childhood - very hard to find these days.

Makes in a clever way the point that trying to "fix" things with no real sense of what the problem is and what the outcome of your tactics is just going to make things worse. A point I grasped at a very tender age but certain governing bodies many of who have no head of state clearly have NOT internalized.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby Bare_Truth » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:43 am

Yeah, Right,
A childrens book
61 pages long
New Price: $193.64.

That's $3.17 per page

That must be some "kids book!
At that pirce it ought to be bound in Morocco Leather and come in a presentation case!

Written by Munroe Leaf, whose other famous children's book was The Story of Ferdinand, I suppose if that book was also selling for similar prices, one could say "That's a lot of bull !".
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby natman » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:37 pm

jochanaan wrote:And who decides what is necessary and proper? I suppose the Supreme Court could decide that--but it seems that many of the same folks who complain about "unnecessary and improper" laws also complain about "activist courts." :roll: (Sorry; my frustration with the political process shows sometimes.)


We tend to say that the Constitution is SUPREME the "Law of the Land". However, I think that it is the Supreme Court. Nine appointed, unelected, lifetime members alone are the most powerful body in our government because it is THEY who determine such things as what the meaning of the word "is" is, and all by a simple majority of five. That is scary. :shock:
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby prairieboy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:14 am

natman wrote:
prairieboy wrote:Of course there are also political crusaders who speak loud, speak often, and wear out the opposition. It is time to dig in our heels and quit backing up.


Agreed. However, that applies only to those who are in Christ. We cannot and should not expect that those outside of Christ will cease to continue to push for their own agendas.

I am not saying "Give in". I am saying, "Be what God expects US to be, and expect those outside of Christ to be who they themselves or Satan expects them to be, and don't be surprised or disappointed if you can't change their minds or hearts. That, after all, is the responsibility and the work of the Holy Spirit.


I am never surprised by how evil some people are, but rather I am surprised by how good the majority of people are.

However, if we don't boldly define the RIGHT, the majority will be informed only by the other side. Also, satan is a master of the tactic of divide and conquer. He likes to make people feel alone so that they will give up. (remember Elisha) It is important to continue to speak up so that the many that are supportive do not start to feel alone. There are many that wonder, "What difference can I make?" but when they realize that others feel the same way, it empowers them to continue to try.
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby Petros » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:19 am

Bare Truth -

It is quite a decent book, significantly better than some we saw raising Number 1 Son. Of course my original copy [possibly at present in Maureen's collection] was well under $100, and if I had time, energy and appropriate permissions I would get an affordable reprint going.

Our current copy was my birthday from Herself; not $193 but likely not cheap, and she had to find a wellworn copy in the UK. Today, abebooks.com will sell you a first edition for $24 - high, but bearable.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby Petros » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:34 am

natman, jochanaan,

it does sometimes seem the Law West of the Pecos has moved east and that our pols are more interested in jostling and jockeying than in keeping the train on schedule and on the track.
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby jochanaan » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:28 am

Petros wrote:natman, jochanaan,

it does sometimes seem the Law West of the Pecos has moved east and that our pols are more interested in jostling and jockeying than in keeping the train on schedule and on the track.
And where is the Diogenes that can show us an honest man? :?:
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby Petros » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:28 pm

He stays inside [not in a barrel] and less often than we mght like points at us.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby vycna » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:16 pm

Maybe the problem we see in our society is calling for true Christian believers to be peacemakers, and to lead in living with compassion showing obedience in following Christ. There should not be arbitrary limits with it either, or it is hypocrisy, it should be purposed fully. There can be Christian influence in society, instead of just society having influence on Christians.
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:43 pm

natman wrote:We tend to say that the Constitution is SUPREME the "Law of the Land". However, I think that it is the Supreme Court. Nine appointed, unelected, lifetime members alone are the most powerful body in our government because it is THEY who determine such things as what the meaning of the word "is" is, and all by a simple majority of five. That is scary. :shock:

Can you imagine having direct elections for the Supreme Court? :shock: Thankfully they are instead appointed by the President as vacancies occur.
Even the president is not directly elected, the Electoral College chooses our president; you and I merely choose electors, (if we bother to vote). There is at least the potential for good appointments if we choose good electors, who in turn choose a good president, who in turn makes good appointments from a pool of judges who RESPECT the Constitution.

However, their security from the shifting winds of political pressure does not mean that these nine justices should legislate from the bench. Congress should set clearer limits on their powers. I don't think that all-powerful justices was the framers' intention.
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby natman » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:02 pm

Ramblinman wrote:Can you imagine having direct elections for the Supreme Court? :shock:


Actually, yes I can.

Like diapers, the President, Congress and the Supreme court need to be changed out regularly. I think that it is dangerous to have a president, particularly a misguided president, appoint justices who will likely rule in cases for and against him or his policies, and even more dangerous to have those justices appointed for LIFE. :shock: Unfortunately, there is no oversight board to vet sitting justices if they take a sudden turn away from juris prudence.

Ramblinman wrote:Congress should set clearer limits on their powers. I don't think that all-powerful justices was the framers' intention.


There's the rub. Congress does not have the authority to limit the power of the Supreme Court. The Constitution does. However, who interprets the Constitution? The Supreme Court. So they, and they alone, can interpret it to mean that they have all the power they want. :(
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby MoNatureMan » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:07 am

You are right on top of the problem of government.
The Constitution is being ignored.
When FDR confiscated gold the Supreme Court said it was constitutional but FDR continued to do it anyway. Presidents (R and D) have been making law by 'Executive Order' which the Supreme Court has ruled unconstitutional. They do it anyway.
Laws that violate the Constitution are commonly passed and foreign law is used in determining court cases instead of the Constitution.
Those are just a few examples of many.

One thing our government could to is, fire everybody in the government including elected officials and judges. Start over with new elected officials. Discard all laws and go back to the original Constitution and Bill of Rights. Federalize the Federal Reserve and put the currency back in hands of the Government. I know that would never happen and if it did would be chaotic, but that may be the only way to remove the corruption.

Ron
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby bn2bnude » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:29 am

MoNatureMan wrote:One thing our government could to is, fire everybody in the government including elected officials and judges. Start over with new elected officials. Discard all laws and go back to the original Constitution and Bill of Rights. Federalize the Federal Reserve and put the currency back in hands of the Government. I know that would never happen and if it did would be chaotic, but that may be the only way to remove the corruption.

Ron

We are the ones that fire the elected officials and we do a poor job of that.
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Re: Christian moral values vs societal and political moral v

Postby natman » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:16 am

MoNatureMan wrote:One thing our government could to is, fire everybody in the government including elected officials and judges. Start over with new elected officials. Discard all laws and go back to the original Constitution and Bill of Rights. Federalize the Federal Reserve and put the currency back in hands of the Government. I know that would never happen and if it did would be chaotic, but that may be the only way to remove the corruption.


Unless we rewrite the way the Supreme Court works, then it would only be a matter of time before we are right back where we are.
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