Well, There Goes NC

[JimShedd112]

Bill, I just want to say publicly, you reached out to me and others yesterday or perhaps Tuesday and I only saw the first email yesterday to try to understand what happened at N-C. I just want to say I appreciate you doing so. I was not aware you weren't aware of this site until yesterday and, perhaps, have been undermined by some here ans well as moderators at N-C.

Jim

[Maverick]

It does seem Bill Martin is sensitive to any real discussion of which he disapproves. I too was previously banned (perhaps suspended is more appropriate) without notice or warning when Bill took offense to comments I made about the pope and the Catholic Church.

I personally say live and let live and accept the fact Quakers accept and recognize homosexuality and same-sex marriage but recognize others are fastidiously set against it as an "abomination to God." It is, as many here will argue, not our position to pass judgment/condemn those we don't agree with, it's God's role.

Jim

The Terms of Service prohibit demeaning of another's religion. Postings are to be positive and must show respect for other denominations.

Bill Martin, Founder, Naturist-Christians.org

With all due respect sir, you do not believe that the Bible is inerrant; I (and many others on this site) do. Based on that belief, when God's Word says not to tolerate evil or to compromise on anything that is commanded by God, I believe that is the truth.

O you who love the LORD, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked. -- Psalm 97:10

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. -- 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! -- Isaiah 5:20

I have not visited Naturist-Christians in quite a while but when I was there I don't recall seeing any posts that demeaned, disrespected, or otherwise desecrated a religion or a denomination. I thought most of the discussion was very insightful and respectful. If anything, NC'ers were "speaking the truth in love" (Ephesians 4:15).

The Word of God not only calls us believers to hate evil but also to question religious beliefs, even "Christian" beliefs.

If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. -- Deuteronomy 13:1-5

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. -- 1 John 4:1-6

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. -- Galatians 1:6-10

And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. -- 2 Corinthians 11:12-15

Questioning religious beliefs is what led me to naturism in the first place, as I saw for the first time that naturism was completely compatible with what I read in the Bible, not what was necessarily taught in church or in "traditional" American Christianity. That same questioning is what led me to N-C first, and later to here at CNV. I do not know to what extent posts were censored and/or deleted at N-C, but when I left, things seemed to be getting out of hand.

The Bible, as I read it, teaches intolerance of what is evil and what is not true. A site that is truly "tolerant" of all beliefs and denominations should truly tolerate the intolerance of false teaching and wickedness as taught by God's Word. If N-C will accept that, I for one would gladly return, continuing to "speak the truth in love" (Ephesians 4:15).

[New_Adventurer]

I have been following this strip for almost two months and am still at a loss exactly what NC is. Is it Nudist Clubhouse, Nudist Convocation, or Nudist something else.

[Bare_Truth]

I have been following this strip for almost two months and am still at a loss exactly what NC is. Is it Nudist Clubhouse, Nudist Convocation, or Nudist something else.

Point well taken!

NC is for Naturist Christians http://naturist-christians.org
Naturist Christians is the website created by Bill Martin, and is the sister site to CNV (this site) hence NC is the site from which this site(CNV) was a spin-off. The schism was primarily for differences of administration and style as well as real or imagined or plausible restrictions under which the two sites operate. There are differences of allowed content and rules and perception of content that also play into the schism. Given the history, there is a good degree of amicability between the sites. It would appear that it is sort of a Paul and Barnabas thing ( Acts 15:36-41)

NC and CNV have a very large overlap of membership and because of both the pluses and minuses of their history most people on each of the sites "seem" to recognize the two abbreviations by the context in which they are used. But those of us who do make that recognition, have perhaps not realized the confusion for those of you who do not have experience with the context. Aplogies for the confusion.

[JimShedd112]

Well said, Bare_Truth and thank you for the clarification. I guess far too many of us thought at least the majority of the participants were on both sites.

Jim

[Petros]

Hard to tell with different monickers. I have a very hard time thinking of Ramblinman without Onslow., and I miss my scribe, even though Jerome R Us.

[Maverick]

I said my peace at NC and left it there, stating that I would let others have the last word(s), so I will not here break my word. However, I had no idea how much is being deleted and locked, especially entire strips where in debate I proved the inaccuracies of unsourced stats and statements that mocked or smeared Biblically-based, conservative (NOT right-wing fundamental) Christianity. Convenient. But the guy with his finger on the detonator usually does the most damage.

I'm surprised I, myself, am not kicked out... yet. But at the rate of deletions, I may soon be demoted from weekend nudist to nudist-wannabe.

For your information, Miriam deleted more than 1000 posts without consulting anyone else. I only deleted a few posts after first notifying the poster that the post was in violation of the Terms of Service. Some posts not related to Naturism were moved to the Non Naturist Forums.

Bill Martin, Founder
Naturist-Christians.org

I caught up with Miriam at another naturist forum where I am a member and I politely asked her about this issue. Here is her response:

Yes, what I do is never a secret to anyone...you know me! I did explain it on the site before I left...but obviously it was deleted quickly by 'funtobenude'. The decision to leave was certainly mine because what was going on behind-the-scenes was something as a Christian Woman I could not live with. I also loved everyone there and I will not under any circumstances stand idly by to watch my friends being treated that way. There was lurking in private e-mails, probing and censorship in the Women's Private Forum...threats of eviction to long time members and even censorship of people's statements. And yes, I did personally delete everything I had written except for one prayer in the Women's private forum for someone who had committed suicide because I feared that both the moderator 'funtobenude' and Bill Martin would re-write everything I contributed to follow their mindset. I could not permit that. Feel free to tell that to anyone who wants to know. I hold no secrets as you well know.

So, here is what Miriam asserts:
1) She deleted most of what she wrote because she believed that admins would rewrite/censor it to conform to their viewpoints.
2) There was "lurking" in private emails (not exactly sure what this one means).
3) There was probing and censorship in the women's private forum.
4) Certain members were threatened to be banned (whether publicly or privately, I do not know).
5) People's statements were censored.

She did not assert that she deleted things that other people wrote. (Now, if she deleted strips that she started, I can see how others' posts might be deleted in that case, and I seriously doubt if that was her intention.)

Interpret how you will.

[Petros]

#2 and #3 are mighty peculiar - I have no data

But #4 and #5, at least I and Jim Shedd were banned, I permanently the 2nd time as Father William testifieth, and several posts were deleted at times unlikely to relate to Miriam moving on, and many of those where posts Father William told mehe would delete if I did not.

Still - to the pure all things are pure and to the self righteous all things testify to their righteousness.

[naturaldon]

Bill wrote:
I, for one, receive the Cooperative Baptist newsletter about 3-4 times a week.

FINALLY! A source! Bill, please know that the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship is a break-away organization of the very conservative SBC. CBF does not represent Southern Baptists IN ANY FORM, even though it claims to at times. There are a few churches that are "dually aligned" but they are very uncommon. As for further comment, I will keep my word and not engage the rhetoric, although I still stand by my statement, "the guy with the finger on the button usually causes the most damage." Past discussions are just too incriminating.

Also, I find it hard to believe that you had no idea that CNV existed. Really? If I misundersand your statement, I do apologize, but really, you had no idea that CNV was out there until very recently?

[JimShedd112]

Thank you Maverick for posting Miriam's reply. It should all be clear to anyone now who will read her statement why she left. She has been attacked numerous times since for deleting things and she admits she did with the exception of one prayer in the Women's Forum.

For full disclosure, Bill Martin and I are expected to engage in a telephone conversation sometime this week, at his suggestion. I have no idea the topic of discussion but am willing to engage in conversation in order to understand him better, I hope.

As stated by Petros, I was temporarily banned from the site last year for comments I made about the new pope and the Catholic Church, challenging him and the church to "put your money where your mouth is." I never intended to disparage anyone or anyone's faith but it was apparently interpreted that way. Then, I saw a sharp turn to a more "conservative' approach to Christianity until Bill Martin, supported by funtobenude, stated the forum was going to return to its original intent - discussions of nudism vs religion.

Jim

PS, for anyone interested, Miriam and Bella Jordan are now newly appointed moderators on True Nudists and have started a new subject "Ask the New Naked Girls" under the LIVING NAKED AND UNASHAMED group, created by Miriam's husband. Miriam is very strongly speaking out to all to become actively involved in and speaking out for the goodness of nude living.

[Petros]

I have to say I have missed regular [irregularly we are in touch, but it is not the same] interaction with Miriam. Not that we would not correct and reprove one another - I get that with anyone and rather value it, how else grow?

But straightforward energetic dedication is worth much.

Good luck with your phone session. Be interesting to see what he has to say.

At least his Christianity is conservative / traditional enough to believe in a personal devil- the demon Celsiel.

[Ramblinman]

Miriam has a good heart.
Was she right 100% of the time? Of course not!
Doesn't matter. She was helpful to our cause.

[Bare_Truth]

#2 and #3 are mighty peculiar - I have no data

So, here is what Miriam asserts:
......
2) There was "lurking" in private emails (not exactly sure what this one means).
3) There was probing and censorship in the women's private forum.
............

Although it is not explicitly clear, I took this to mean:
#2 That someone was looking at "private" messages that they neither sent nor were the recipient of.
#3 That in the "women's private forum" :
-- messages by women were being monitored in a general manner.
-- messages by women were, in some way, being monitored in a targeted manner.
-- messages by women were suffering deletions, or possibly even alterations.

Exactly what "probing" was supposed to mean I am not sure unless it included questions or comments specifically directed at postings by bona-fide women participants but coming from someone only acting under the guise of a bona-fide participant.

If anyone has any sort of better explanation of "probing", please share.

[Bare_Truth]

The Naturist-Christians.org site has merely moved discussions not directly related to Naturism to the non-naturist discussions.

So apparently there has simply been a misunderstanding. However I went to the non naturist discussions forum and searched for the word "marriage" and was unable to find the strip called "What is Marriage" I conducted a search for the word Marriage on all 9 pages of that forum and could not find it. I also performed a similar scan on all the posts for the last two years by myself and MoNatureMan. I was wondering if it might have been moved elsewhere or retitled., Please advise if you know where it went.

[nakedpreacher]

Unacceptable opinions are censored as well, my strip "authority of Scripture" did get moved to the area for non-naturist discussions but remain locked, the reason given (can't recall if it was in Mr. Martins comment or in a PM from him) was that I espoused belief in biblical inerrancy. Many others have been moved but remain Locked. What's the point of leaving them up without allowing discussion?
Naked Preacher