Well, There Goes NC

[Petros]

The point and the principle are rarely clear. Biblical inerrancy is taboo because "most Christians" don't believe in it [note that the definition of "Christian" is "someone who claims to be a Christian" - so two people can have identical beliefs but only the one who uses the word "is" a Christian.

Papal infallibility would presumably be taboo because you might diss the Roman church.

And Quaker Inner Light MAY be discussed - because of Wm Martin infallibility?

[AmericanQuaker]

I caught up with Miriam at another naturist forum where I am a member and I politely asked her about this issue. Here is her response:

Yes, what I do is never a secret to anyone...you know me! I did explain it on the site before I left...but obviously it was deleted quickly by 'funtobenude'. The decision to leave was certainly mine because what was going on behind-the-scenes was something as a Christian Woman I could not live with. I also loved everyone there and I will not under any circumstances stand idly by to watch my friends being treated that way. There was lurking in private e-mails, probing and censorship in the Women's Private Forum...threats of eviction to long time members and even censorship of people's statements. And yes, I did personally delete everything I had written except for one prayer in the Women's private forum for someone who had committed suicide because I feared that both the moderator 'funtobenude' and Bill Martin would re-write everything I contributed to follow their mindset. I could not permit that. Feel free to tell that to anyone who wants to know. I hold no secrets as you well know.

So, here is what Miriam asserts:
1) She deleted most of what she wrote because she believed that admins would rewrite/censor it to conform to their viewpoints.
2) There was "lurking" in private emails (not exactly sure what this one means).
3) There was probing and censorship in the women's private forum.
4) Certain members were threatened to be banned (whether publicly or privately, I do not know).
5) People's statements were censored.

She did not assert that she deleted things that other people wrote. (Now, if she deleted strips that she started, I can see how others' posts might be deleted in that case, and I seriously doubt if that was her intention.)

Interpret how you will.

This is the first time that I have been back since I last posted. No one ever or ever would have edited or censored anything that Miriam wrote. After all, it was myself that asked her to be a moderator (as it turned out, it was my poor judgment). No one, including the moderators or administrators (including myself) could ever get into a Private Message from another person. Probing and censorship in the women's private forum - I know nothing about it except that she wanted to keep all men out of it. I don't know how you would do that. In the past year only one member was banned "Celius" who now is a prolific poster here under a different user name (Petros). I have gone through our Administrator control panel and have found no warnings (except to Celcius - 4 formal warnings) in the past year - long before Miriam came aboard. I know of no statement which was censored. It's easy to make a charge - but back it up.

[Petros]

In the past year only one member was banned "Celius" who now is a prolific poster here under a different user name (Petros). I

In the interests of accuracy, sir: please insert "permanently" before banned, since before you shut me out completely - for not doing what you demanded I not do - I and at least one other were temporarily locked out.

Also, I was a moderately prolific poster here before I - rather gingerly, because it was not clear whether my kind would be welcome - began exploring NC and fell afoul of you and Lord Russell. If that is not it, I have no clue - I did not diss Pope Francis or any other member of any church nor any doctrinal stance, I was not - though you claimed I was - a conservative Chtistian extremist, and I did not post where you told me I ought not to post. I did bring up at the end some very relevant points made by Lord Russell. The most common complaint I got from you was that you did not understand what I was saying.

[Bare_Truth]

Something curious is happening at NC in the Members listing. It appears the majority of members are having their number of posts reset to zero. I am wondering if there are technical difficulties or if someone is messing with the site, or new software is being installed. I would think the recent administrative upsets were bad enough and Bill Martin does not need any other problems with the site. Hopefully he has it backed up.

[Ramblinman]

In the past year only one member was banned "Celius" who now is a prolific poster here under a different user name (Petros). I

In the interests of accuracy, sir: please insert "permanently" before banned, since before you shut me out completely - for not doing what you demanded I not do - I and at least one other were temporarily locked out.

Also, I was a moderately prolific poster here before I - rather gingerly, because it was not clear whether my kind would be welcome - began exploring NC and fell afoul of you and Lord Russell. If that is not it, I have no clue - I did not diss Pope Francis or any other member of any church nor any doctrinal stance, I was not - though you claimed I was - a conservative Chtistian extremist, and I did not post where you told me I ought not to post. I did bring up at the end some very relevant points made by Lord Russell. The most common complaint I got from you was that you did not understand what I was saying.

So, to summarize: evangelical Christians are welcome at Naturist-Christians!
As long as they never take political or religious stances with which the forum owner disagrees?
As long as they don't post any evidence that the Bible is the word of God?
As long as they don't disagree with theological statements made by other members on that forum?
As long as they don't quote the writings of secular philosophers from the previous century that reveal that the writer is a self-described agnostic?
As long as they declare that homosexual acts are blessed by God?

So maybe the best way to describe the sort of welcome awaiting fanatical Christians (those who revere the words of the Bible) is that they are "welcome to leave"
As long as our departure is so rapid that the the door doesn't hit us on our way out!

[Petros]

That, of course, is why I am the only one Father William remembers expelling - I was NOT about to leave. It is interesting to see how many cranky Christians and less than Liberals fly under his radar. One of my sins was pointing out that others were saying much more provocative and even judgmental things without causing him pain, while my balanced impersonal examination of the issues was intolerable.

[Petros]

Anyway, I'm done.If Father William wants me back, he can ask directly.

I remember my first interaction with him - he spontaneously sent me, as Celsius, a private message warning me that natman had a habit of deleting people's posts without provocation. Funny how people keep being disappeared over there.

Whatever. Bannerji [a less than respectful but apt name I coined for him after the inital banning incident] may ban away to his heart's content. IF he ever begs me to return, I will consider it there are still some there worth talking to.

For now, I will let his apologetics dig their own grave.

[Maverick]

No one ever or ever would have edited or censored anything that Miriam wrote.

Maybe not Miriam, because as I recall she didn't get into the theological discussions/debates on the site, but perhaps others.

No one, including the moderators or administrators (including myself) could ever get into a Private Message from another person.

This site (CNV) is powered by phpBB, "the #1 free, open source bulletin board software" according to their website (https://www.phpbb.com/). N-C has removed its "Powered By..." bit at the bottom of the page but a quick examination of the HTML code for the login page shows this:

<body id="phpbb" class="section-index ltr" style="position: relative; min-height: 100%; top: 0px;">

A quick search on the phpBB page finds this:

Modification Name: Private Message Moderation
Author: twosheds_

Modification Description: Moderate the private messages sent by users on a phpBB3 bulletin board. Administrators can view the private message database and delete private messages using this Administration Control Panel plugin.

Modification Version: 1.5.4

Features:

View private messages created by the users of your bulletin board
View all of the private messages sent by a specific user
View all of the private message received by a specific user
View the conversation between two specific users
Search for private messages that contain a specific text string
Delete private messages

So it is possible with this add-on that an admin could get into the PMs of another person.

Probing and censorship in the women's private forum - I know nothing about it except that she wanted to keep all men out of it. I don't know how you would do that.

I find this hard to believe, since any private forum requires an admin to set it up first and I bet that a "super administrator" could easily get access to anything he or she desires. Every site or forum I know of has one or more "super admins" who can make changes above and beyond what any normal admin can.

I have gone through our Administrator control panel and have found no warnings (except to Celcius - 4 formal warnings) in the past year - long before Miriam came aboard.

Miriam and her husband joined the forum well over a year ago. I remember because it was about this time last year that she started her "Naturism 101" classes (can't remember the exact name). I was an active member for about a year starting August 2014 and ending around August 2015; she joined well within the first few months I was active.

I know of no statement which was censored. It's easy to make a charge - but back it up.

And how exactly would one be able to prove if a statement is censored when the original, uncensored message is gone? How would Miriam be able to prove what she's asserting since she's no longer a member, much less an admin, of Naturist-Christians?

The Naturist-Christians.org site has merely moved discussions not directly related to Naturism to the non-naturist discussions.

So apparently there has simply been a misunderstanding. However I went to the non naturist discussions forum and searched for the word "marriage" and was unable to find the strip called "What is Marriage" I conducted a search for the word Marriage on all 9 pages of that forum and could not find it. I also performed a similar scan on all the posts for the last two years by myself and MoNatureMan. I was wondering if it might have been moved elsewhere or retitled., Please advise if you know where it went.

Unacceptable opinions are censored as well, my strip "authority of Scripture" did get moved to the area for non-naturist discussions but remain locked, the reason given (can't recall if it was in Mr. Martins comment or in a PM from him) was that I espoused belief in biblical inerrancy. Many others have been moved but remain Locked. What's the point of leaving them up without allowing discussion?
Naked Preacher

Mr. Martin, you could do some of us a favor by pointing to the discussions in question, and maybe you could do some detective work and find out who was censoring/deleting forum posts.

Anyway, I'm done.If Father William wants me back, he can ask directly.

Same here. I've yet to see any evidence to back up his charges, and until I do, there is no point in engaging further.

[JimShedd112]

Bill Martin and I finally connected last night for less than a 20-minute discussion. He asked my views on Naturist Christians and encouraged me to contact him anytime I have concerns or suggestions for the site.

We talked briefly about his intent to return to a more naturist focus but reiterated theological discussions, including opposing points of view may be posted as long the antagonists remain respectful of each other and their religious views.

He also mentioned the outdated galleries and Michelle's comments on the photos. Bill definitely favors the European view of nudism.

Jim

[natman]

No one, including the moderators or administrators (including myself) could ever get into a Private Message from another person.

Bill is somewhat correct here. Site moderators and administrators cannot directly view PMs. However, with a great deal of work, webmasters (such as myself) can. However, it is only ever done if there is "probably cause" to do so.

This site (CNV) is powered by phpBB, "the #1 free, open source bulletin board software" according to their website (https://www.phpbb.com/). N-C has removed its "Powered By..." bit at the bottom of the page but a quick examination of the HTML code for the login page shows this:

<body id="phpbb" class="section-index ltr" style="position: relative; min-height: 100%; top: 0px;">

A quick search on the phpBB page finds this:

Modification Name: Private Message Moderation
Author: twosheds_...

So it is possible with this add-on that an admin could get into the PMs of another person.[/quote]

It is "possible". One of the sites, I can't recall which one, had such a MOD. However, it became utterly useless in one of the software updates, so it was removed.

Probing and censorship in the women's private forum - I know nothing about it except that she wanted to keep all men out of it. I don't know how you would do that.

I find this hard to believe, since any private forum requires an admin to set it up first and I bet that a "super administrator" could easily get access to anything he or she desires. Every site or forum I know of has one or more "super admins" who can make changes above and beyond what any normal admin can.

This has actually been an issue, even for me. I usually enter the site at the "View Unread Posts" level. There have been a few times when I responded to a post in the women's forum without realizing where I was. As an "admin", of course I have access to ALL posts. I have tried to create special filters to prevent some of the male moderators from viewing the women-only forums, but it is very difficult. Unfortunately, "Somebody" went in and made all of the moderators into administrators, so filters no longer work.

I have gone through our Administrator control panel and have found no warnings (except to Celcius - 4 formal warnings) in the past year - long before Miriam came aboard.

I have not used the "warnings" system because I have found it to be a poor way to communicate. Most people seem to miss the fact that there are warnings posted against them. Instead, I have found communication by PM or email to be much more effective. I think there have been less than five individuals who were permanently banned; a few for pushing porn websites and a few for denagrating others after several emails to "cool it".

[Petros]

Nice company.

[Ramblinman]

Nice company.

The old testament prophet Joseph, Paul and Silas, John the Baptist, Jesus, the Apostle Peter...shall I continue?

[Petros]

Well, if you will go denigrating rulers and pillars of society....

[Ramblinman]

Well, if you will go denigrating rulers and pillars of society....

Samson took down some "pillars of society" in his final act...

[Petros]

In the past year only one member was banned "Celius" who now is a prolific poster here under a different user name (Petros).

Dear me, Dr. Moriarty, dear me.