You can’t legislate morality?!

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You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby MoNatureMan » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:10 am

My Question For The Day.
Can you legislate morality? Common thought in America today is no.

I believe this thought comes from the American Prohibition (on alcohol) of the early 1900s (1919-1933).
Part of Christianity formed a movement that brought about The Prohibition. There was another part of Christianity and unchurched people, that disagreed with the prohibition on alcohol. Truly America was divided on this issue. With so much of America not wanting or accepting The Prohibition, it became impossible to enforce. In 1933 the American experiment to regulate this moral issue failed.

Today we commonly hear ‘you can’t legislate morality’. Let me ask a few simple questions?
Is it illegal to murder someone? Murder is a moral issue.
Is it illegal in rob a bank? Stealing is a moral issue.
Is it illegal to kill a baby by abortion? Abortion is a moral issue.
The Bible agrees with 2 of these 3 moral laws in America today..

If we think about it, it becomes very clear that every law is legislating morality. The question then becomes, who’s morality is the law honoring?

In Him
Ron :cross:
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby Petros » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:55 am

Oh, I can see a hot fast debate there.

To get in edgeways:

If Glorious Leader wants you to wear pinstripes, people will wear pinstripes until the army or the people or Finn Shane rise up and depose Glorious Leader.

If the Grand Chamber of Deputies decides you should cross the street hopping on one foot, people will hop until the army or a general election or Glorious Leader replaces the Grand Chasmber of Deputies.

If the Defenders of Righteousness decree you must abstain from Spam, everybody will eschew Spam until the Defenders of Righteousness ar disbanded by tha majority or Glorious Leader or the army.

If Maw says wipe your shoes before you come in the house, you gone do it untill you move out or Paw puts his muddy foot down.

In each case, in a sense somebody's morality is made law, but unless enough are persuaded by suasion and not by fiat it ain't nohow gone stick.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby bn2bnude » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:26 am

You can legislate morality...

It doesn't mean people who would do an action (take any of your examples) anyway would stop doing it. It only allows you to prosecute those who do.

Granted, it will be a deterrent for some.
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby natman » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:31 am

According to several pastors I listen to, all laws are an effort to legislate SOMEONE's morality on someone else. They state that morality is the ONLY thing we can legislate.

However, just because something is legislated does not mean that it changes the hearts and minds of those who fall under the legislation. Nor does it mean that it is good nor enforceable.
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby jochanaan » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:19 am

"A man convinced against his will/Is of the same opinion still." The difference between (for example) laws against murder and those against consuming alcohol is that there is an overwhelming consensus among humans that murder is indeed wrong, while there is no such consensus about drinking alcohol.
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby Petros » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:35 pm

Or utilizing such other god-given substances as the People have discovered in their environment.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby prairieboy » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:03 am

Prohibition was an attempt to legislate morality. It was more than a failure, it was a disaster.
I remember reading about a major revival in the eastern states when many bars closed their doors. Why? Their former clients had become saved, and were more interested in pleasing God, and in spending time with their families.
You can legislate morality, but it is more effective to see that people's hearts are changed.
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby natman » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:44 am

prairieboy wrote:You can legislate morality, but it is more effective to see that people's hearts are changed.


AMEN! And THAT is the business we should be about.

That does not mean that we, as Christian citizens, should not attempt to keep the laws of our land reflecting the Godly laws of the Bible, valuing life and liberty.
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:30 am

natman wrote:
prairieboy wrote:You can legislate morality, but it is more effective to see that people's hearts are changed.


AMEN! And THAT is the business we should be about.

That does not mean that we, as Christian citizens, should not attempt to keep the laws of our land reflecting the Godly laws of the Bible, valuing life and liberty.


I ran across a something that caused me to start googling if smoking pot was a sin.

In an article"mega-church" pastor Mark Driscoll wrote for relevance magazine, his state has caused him to have to re-think his position.

No, his position hasn't changed. Previously when asked, though, he would point the person to Romans 13 and suggest they should obey the laws. Now he goes down the road of "it is lawful but is it folly"?
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby MoNatureMan » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:23 pm

prairieboy'
You can legislate morality, but it is more effective to see that people's hearts are changed.

True, but can we completely ignore the legislative part? For instance abortion. How many many more babies have been murdered because of an ungodly law. They said that making abortion legal would lead to fewer and safer abortions. Neither were true.

I think we must be careful when making laws, but we also must be careful to not support laws that are contrary to God's Word.

In Him
Ron
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby bn2bnude » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:41 pm

MoNatureMan wrote:prairieboy'
You can legislate morality, but it is more effective to see that people's hearts are changed.

True, but can we completely ignore the legislative part? For instance abortion. How many many more babies have been murdered because of an ungodly law. They said that making abortion legal would lead to fewer and safer abortions. Neither were true.

I think we must be careful when making laws, but we also must be careful to not support laws that are contrary to God's Word.

In Him
Ron


Then, for a practical response, where do you stop legislating morality?

We all pretty much agree on murder & stealing. Abortion should probably fall in there too...

Drunkenness and public sex would likely be in there. Arkansas has some pretty stiff anti-nudity laws.

What about non-public sexual behavior? Prostitution? Gambling?

At some point, someone will hit the thing you don't mind and you'll get offended.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby MoNatureMan » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:30 am

Interesting thought.

It is very difficult in a society like America, that has strayed so far from Scripture and Scriptural morality.
Sure our laws need to include things like murder, rape, abortion, robbery, plus so many others. But today, we also have many laws, that are clearly contrary to Scripture. Like those supporting abortion, homosexuality, 'easy divorce' and so on. Coming against ungodly laws would probably be a priority. Does that mean that we need to get into everybody's bedroom to see if they are committing adultery or homosexual acts - of course not, but at the same time we shouldn't have laws endorsing such activity.

Here is another consequence of legalizing sin. Because ungodly things like abortion and homosexuality (only naming 2) are 'legal' they are being taught to our children in America's public schools. I know of a student taken to an abortion clinic by school personnel. Homosexuality is being taught as normal and equal to one man / one woman in America's public schools. There are a lot more issues here but will leave them out at this time.

Being human and part of a human society automatically says we can't seem to get it right.
Example: In the past (information for you young ones out there) it was looked down upon to get a divorce. It still is in some churches today. When I went to school, divorce was almost unheard of. Maybe, 1 kid of 20 didn't have original parents.
But some times we as Christians, instead of trying to lift up someone that was divorced, look down upon them. Then our society tried to fix it. Now the divorce rate is over 40%.

Yes it is true that every law is 'legalizing' one type of morality. I believe we as Christians today need to stand for the moral laws that are clearly supported by Scripture and at the same time stand against those that are clearly against Scripture.

We also must recognize that we are in a different society then the days of the Scripture writers. Stoning people in the public square doesn't fit into our society or legal system today.

In Him
Ron :cross:
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby Petros » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:55 am

McNatureMan:

Thou hast said:


"I think we must be careful when making laws, but we also must be careful to not support laws that are contrary to God's Word."

Hoe, please, does "supporting a law" relate to "making a law" and "obeying a law"?
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby bn2bnude » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:31 am

Then, let's suppose, for conjecture's sake, all the laws that legislate what you cannot do are in place and the majority of society agrees with them.

Do you then start legislating to make society better... Let's say, "you must go to church", or "you must give to the poor".

It seems that this process becomes a slippery slope to total bondage to laws.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: You can’t legislate morality?!

Postby prairieboy » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:57 pm

MoNatureMan wrote:Interesting thought.

We also must recognize that we are in a different society then the days of the Scripture writers. Stoning people in the public square doesn't fit into our society or legal system today.

In Him
Ron :cross:


"Scripture writers", I include the New Testament writers in that category, and the New Testament is a message of grace, certainly not of stoning.
The "moral majority" was a failure. They did not have much of an effect on the laws. They reinforced the legalism already in the church. What they were selling was not Christianity, but they said it was, and so they left a negative image of Christianity in the minds of millions. I am not saying to abandon legal reform. If that is what God has called you to, then give it everything you have. Each of us has been called to proclaim the gospel, and without clear direction otherwise, that should get more of our effort than legal reform.
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