Christian or Counterfeit

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Christian or Counterfeit

Postby MoNatureMan » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:52 pm

I just finished this letter.

Christian or Counterfeit

Government says​​
A baby in the womb is not a person.
It is only part of a woman's body.
A woman has the right to terminate pregnancy by killing the unborn.


God says
An unborn baby is a creation of God.
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Psalms 139:13-14 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:


God hates those who shed innocent blood
Proverbs 6:16-17 These six things doth the Lord hate:... and hands that shed innocent blood,

Deuteronomy 27;25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.


God says the killing of the unborn is murder

Ex. 21:22–23 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,


Government and Society say
Homosexuality is healthy and normal

God said
He created man male and female
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


God told man and woman to be 'fruitful and multiply'.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


God called homosexuality an abomination and a vile affection.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1: 26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


There are many more examples I could list, but lets look at our lives, who do we serve and who is our God. Is it the Great Creator God or the things of this world?

Abraham Lincoln stated, '
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right.'

Who's side, are you on. Do you stand with God on moral and spiritual issues or against Him? It is inconsistent to claim that Christians can support things that the Word of God, says are wrong.

Understand we are not saved by works, but by faith in the perfect life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We will never be perfect or sinless in this present life, but do we want to be a part of a Counterfeit Christianity? A 'Christianity' that says we are part of Christ, when our hearts and lives are far from Him. Can a true Christian enjoy living in sin or knowingly support ungodly acts?
Romans 6:13-15 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Guard your heart and life, and be a true follower of Christ, not a Counterfeit.
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


I end in these words from Jesus Christ.
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


In Him
:cross: Ron
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby ezduzit » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:57 pm

:like: :like: :like:

Ez
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby bn2bnude » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:30 pm

From what I can tell, you are absolutely right... But it makes no difference...

You're preaching to the choir and the people you want to listen won't hear you.

They are too angry at Christians for condemning them. They are angry at God for not being merciful enough to allow them the lifestyle they feel they were born into.

This comes across as if you are trying to change lives without changing their hearts. It's a technique that may work for a few but is ultimately doomed for failure for most.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:53 pm

Years ago a very dear friend of mine, at the time wallowing in desolation, became pregnant in a desolate one night stand affair. The male involved never even heard about it. She went for abortion and spiralled into a nightmare of guilt and depression that came close to killing her [I was at the time not in touch, found this out when we camed back in contact as she was wispily coming out of it]. Last I heard she was solidly and I trust happily married to a worthy guy who had helped her through it.

The point - she had - that she could see - no choice. The structure of today's society, the laws and rules and traditions and beliefs that structure it - where she stood there was only one possible response to the situation. She - a woman who once told me how muich she wanted children - had but one option. Which Big Brother defines as the "right to choose".

It would have taken the right person at the right place and time to open her eyes to the fact of REAL choice. It did not reach her then. Me - driving home after she told me the story I literally screamed in anguished outrage - I keep praying that she now has heard or in time will hear.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby MoNatureMan » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:28 am

I know of multiple women that have had abortions. One in particular, who is now a Christian. We had some time to talk and this is what was shared:
She told me that it is easy to accept God's forgiveness, but (at that time) she had trouble with her child forgiving her. She also told of times of morning that her body went threw. Every year at time of the abortion and at the time when the baby would have been born she would go into a depression. Now, realizing what it is, she can deal with it. It is interesting that even though she did not necessarily remember the time of abortion, or time of the would have been birth, her spirit remembered.

The great thing is, forgiveness in Christ and the knowledge that someday she will meet and love her child in Heaven. That is what she looks forward to.

In Him
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:02 am

MoNatureMan wrote:God says
An unborn baby is a creation of God.
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Psalms 139:13-14 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:


God hates those who shed innocent blood
Proverbs 6:16-17 These six things doth the Lord hate:... and hands that shed innocent blood,

Deuteronomy 27;25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.


God says the killing of the unborn is murder

Ex. 21:22–23 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,


If we truly believe these verses, our churches will provide sex education coupled with training in morality, provide homes for unwed mothers, pay for and arrange adoption, and spend BIG money teaching the sanctity of human life locally and nationally. And re-educating men in our country is also necessary.

Too often we demand respect for the unborn without showing love after childbirth, without showing love to the mother, condemning her sin without helping her repent and find the path to righteous living. And if she is a victim of a sex crime, let's not treat her as a criminal. I know that defense attorneys for rapists "rape" women in court as much as the law allows.
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby jochanaan » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:50 pm

Ramblinman wrote:If we truly believe these verses, our churches will provide sex education coupled with training in morality, provide homes for unwed mothers, pay for and arrange adoption, and spend BIG money teaching the sanctity of human life locally and nationally. And re-educating men in our country is also necessary.

Too often we demand respect for the unborn without showing love after childbirth, without showing love to the mother, condemning her sin without helping her repent and find the path to righteous living. And if she is a victim of a sex crime, let's not treat her as a criminal. I know that defense attorneys for rapists "rape" women in court as much as the law allows.

:like:
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby bn2bnude » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:34 pm

Today, one of the bloggers I follow posted this video of a message that was delivered back in February by a Southern Baptist pastor who changed his stance on homosexuality.



According to one news article, the church has left the Southern Baptist denomination over the issue.

I suspect some will react negatively to this but I ask that you hear him and his elders out. It is a message that is filled with Biblical study and emotional struggles.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:58 pm

bn2bnude wrote:I suspect some will react negatively to this but I ask that you hear him and his elders out. It is a message that is filled with Biblical study and emotional struggles.


I don't have time to watch an hour-long video of any kind, much less one attempting to explain why the Bible says that homosexual sin is suddenly blessed after thousands of years of being detestable and abominable to God himself.

I understand that some people have been socialized to same-sex attraction or have some genetic abnormality that leaves them confused.

Straight or otherwise, the will of God is clear: Chastity before marriage and fidelity within marriage (to an opposite sex spouse). Those with hormonal problems and who cannot be attracted to the opposite sex may serve the Lord through a life of celibacy. Those who live the single life must work extra hard to find camaraderie and community. I am not opposed to monastic orders for such people. It may be the most godly path in that circumstance.

Sexual sin is particularly destructive to one's body and psyche and is damnable literally. But homosexual sin is worse, symptomatic of rebellion against God that goes beyond the natural to reach new depths of perversion. It is very hard for those caught in this web to escape the path to damnation.
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby ezduzit » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:57 pm

Ramblinman wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:I suspect some will react negatively to this but I ask that you hear him and his elders out. It is a message that is filled with Biblical study and emotional struggles.


I don't have time to watch an hour-long video of any kind, much less one attempting to explain why the Bible says that homosexual sin is suddenly blessed after thousands of years of being detestable and abominable to God himself.

I understand that some people have been socialized to same-sex attraction or have some genetic abnormality that leaves them confused.

Straight or otherwise, the will of God is clear: Chastity before marriage and fidelity within marriage (to an opposite sex spouse). Those with hormonal problems and who cannot be attracted to the opposite sex may serve the Lord through a life of celibacy. Those who live the single life must work extra hard to find camaraderie and community. I am not opposed to monastic orders for such people. It may be the most godly path in that circumstance.

Sexual sin is particularly destructive to one's body and psyche and is damnable literally. But homosexual sin is worse, symptomatic of rebellion against God that goes beyond the natural to reach new depths of perversion. It is very hard for those caught in this web to escape the path to damnation.


:like: :like: :like: :like: :like: :like:
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:31 am

Well, I ran it. Listened, did not watch, having stuff my eyes needed to do. One could say quire a lot on the topic, on all sides - I do not plan to.

The question of to what extent same sex attraction is in-born is for me by no meands answered.

It IS clear to me that ranking sin is itself sinful; all sin is rebellion against God, and all have sinned.

Interesting that for many in the church homosexuality has become what Christianity is for my paleontologist brother. I doubt Darwin feared and hated Christianity to anthing like the same extent, and I suspect that even the ancestor [I don't remember who it was, frankly, and am not sure was it oner of mine or Herself's] who got in trouble in early Massachusetts for a spot of nonheterosexuality was not seen quite the same way as he would have been today. If the Lord tarries, by 2050 we could have totally new ultimate sins.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:41 am

ezduzit wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:I suspect some will react negatively to this but I ask that you hear him and his elders out. It is a message that is filled with Biblical study and emotional struggles.


I don't have time to watch an hour-long video of any kind, much less one attempting to explain why the Bible says that homosexual sin is suddenly blessed after thousands of years of being detestable and abominable to God himself.

I understand that some people have been socialized to same-sex attraction or have some genetic abnormality that leaves them confused.

Straight or otherwise, the will of God is clear: Chastity before marriage and fidelity within marriage (to an opposite sex spouse). Those with hormonal problems and who cannot be attracted to the opposite sex may serve the Lord through a life of celibacy. Those who live the single life must work extra hard to find camaraderie and community. I am not opposed to monastic orders for such people. It may be the most godly path in that circumstance.

Sexual sin is particularly destructive to one's body and psyche and is damnable literally. But homosexual sin is worse, symptomatic of rebellion against God that goes beyond the natural to reach new depths of perversion. It is very hard for those caught in this web to escape the path to damnation.


:like: :like: :like: :like: :like: :like:
Ez

I pray that both you, EZ and Ramblinman are afforded much more grace when issues of disagreement (such as recreational nudity) are brought up than you've given me (and those whom I know struggling with homosexuality in the context of church).

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to force a change in belief, just that you listen to why there are differences.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:23 am

bn2bnude wrote:I pray that both you, EZ and Ramblinman are afforded much more grace when issues of disagreement (such as recreational nudity) are brought up than you've given me (and those whom I know struggling with homosexuality in the context of church).

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to force a change in belief, just that you listen to why there are differences.


I am struggling with heterosexual urges as a single man in a world where some women, including some Christian women, are very willing, sometimes aggressive to invite me to sexual activities without benefit of marriage.

I am resolved to live, day by day, in celibacy, throughout the rest of my life if necessary.

If you (or any other man) is incapable of sexual attraction to women and find yourself tempted to sexual sin in other ways, life is easier if you will take it prayerfully day by day. Jesus taught as much while he walked among us.

It seems that you are agreeing that the sin of homosexual activity does indeed represent a greater stronghold of Satan than heterosexual temptation and perhaps you must fight as a Christian even harder against it.
Paul did say "such were some of you" in I Cor. 6:11. I am only too glad to offer my encouragement and prayers as you fight those demons.

If you had a highly malignant cancer and kept doctor-shopping until you found one who refused to treat it and instead comforted you by saying that it is normal and good to have cancer, then you would likely die of the disease.
Just as assuredly, we must take God's word to heart, even when it warns us of danger.
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby Petros » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:52 am

Simply as a reminder and entirely without fingerpointing, this from the Desert Fasthers:

When one holy man saw someone sinning, he wept, saying "He today, I tomorrow." However grave the sin you notice, do not judge the culprit, but belierve yourself a worse sinner.

Which of course [petros speaking, not the Fathers] applies to judging those who judge. And so on.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christian or Counterfeit

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:22 pm

Ramblinman wrote:I am struggling with heterosexual urges as a single man in a world where some women, including some Christian women, are very willing, sometimes aggressive to invite me to sexual activities without benefit of marriage.

I am resolved to live, day by day, in celibacy, throughout the rest of my life if necessary.

I can appreciate your situation and admire your resolve.

Ramblinman wrote:If you (or any other man) is incapable of sexual attraction to women and find yourself tempted to sexual sin in other ways, life is easier if you will take it prayerfully day by day. Jesus taught as much while he walked among us.

I've been married for over 30 years to a woman I met in college. I apologize if you misread what I wrote above. While I do understand your lack of desire to sit through nearly an hour of discussion, I was referring to what appears to me as pride in "I'm right, they are wrong and God cannot show me any differently" that came through in your writing. I am constantly learning from both scriptures and those around me. In the past week, I've been eloquently prayed for by a homeless man, and prayed for in Hopi by a homeless woman. I've seen God come through in these people that are, in many cases, looked upon as the discards of our society. I've learned a lot from them.

In the same way, we who are Christians tend to discard those "homosexuals" that we do feel are "sinners".

Ramblinman wrote:It seems that you are agreeing that the sin of homosexual activity does indeed represent a greater stronghold of Satan than heterosexual temptation and perhaps you must fight as a Christian even harder against it.
Paul did say "such were some of you" in I Cor. 6:11. I am only too glad to offer my encouragement and prayers as you fight those demons.

I've said no such thing. I will say, however, that sexual sin of any sort does seem to be as much a prison as drugs.

Here is the injustice I see... You could pick out any one (or in the right group, any number) of these women who offer themselves to you and end up in a marriage blessed by a church, in spite of anything you were to do prior to marriage.

On the other hand, someone who is same-sex attracted, who lives in celibacy until meeting their "true-love" would not be afforded the same amount of grace.

Do I believe it's God's ideal? No. What I do believe is we do not live in a theocracy so we need to figure out if we can learn anything as believers from the situation. For instance, are we reading Romans 1 through the same filters that Paul wrote them with? The pastor in the video claims that it is not the case.

What I do know because I've seen it first hand is, for those in same-sex relationships, the evangelical church as a whole is more a stumbling block to them even considering coming to salvation than it is a pathway.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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