Discussion about breastfeeding and nudity on Reddit

[jasenj1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/ ... udity_etc/

Over on the Reddit "TrueChristian" sub-reddit someone posted a question about breastfeeding and nudity. The vast majority of the comments support a woman being able to breastfeed where she wants/needs to and any lust issue is the responsibility of men, the woman does not bear an overwhelming responsibility to accommodate the men. Some did argue that the woman should do her best to cover up to prevent being a source of temptation.

Interestingly, this line of reasoning did not veer onto the topic of nudity in general. If women are justified in baring their breasts for the purpose of feeding their children, why not for enjoying the sun & breeze? for generating vitamin-D? because being unclothed is just plain comfortable? And why stop with breasts? What about the whole person? And men, too?

Of course, those of us here on this forum would say, "Duh! We should all be able to be nude." But the other side has a point, too. There are societal norms; cultural definitions of what is acceptable and unacceptable. To completely discard those for the sake of "freedom" would be selfish & unChristlike.

[JimShedd112]

Jasen, I respectfully disagree. Yes, there are societal norms but it's time to shake up those norms. Things such as homosexuality have been normalized through civil disobedience. To simply always go along with societal norms means someone will always have to hide their true selves.

Jim

PS, Nov 25, 2016: I grew up in Florida and remember when breast feeding was a normal activity with no apparent lusting by anyone, no matter the gender or age. I suspect the problem arose with the widespread use of formulas to feed children in order for women to retain their perky breasts or because of the widespread tendency toward implants.

[jochanaan]

These "norms" and "mores" will take quite a bit of deconstructing and dismantling before they're truly gone. That's why this site and others like it exist: to give us encouragement and suitable tools for the dismantling.

[DaveT]

If what is normal, or socially acceptable, has something wrong with it, Then it needs to be challenged. Since there is something wrong with forbidding a mother to feed her baby when it's hungry. That should be challenged. What should be questioned is: What's wrong with men that makes them go a lusting after a womans breast? Fix that and problem solved. Lust is something that is to controlled, not allowed to run rampant over anything. That's the animal nature, we are created with far greater intellect and self discipline than the animals, with a Creator to answer to. That great big fore brain we have is supposed to be in complete control of the physical desires. It was sin that messed things up. When we allow the physical to control our thoughts and actions we're getting things backwards.

[Bare_Truth]

........
Of course, those of us here on this forum would say, "Duh! We should all be able to be nude." But the other side has a point, too. There are societal norms; cultural definitions of what is acceptable and unacceptable. To completely discard those for the sake of "freedom" would be selfish & unChristlike.

Society needs to move beyond Junior High and High School. Think back to those years, back then there were the "cool kids", the "in crowds" Nobody elected them, They just manipulated others and looked down on anybody else. That clique set the societal norms in high school. They were the ones who bought the clothes and shoes and hairdos that were the "thing to have". They were the ones who exploited others, and a very high percentage of them were bullies and especially "social bullies" And these became the ones who established the definitions of what is acceptable and unacceptable, and often based on what they were able to obtain that others were not. A lot of us did not like them I certainly did not and never wanted them running our lives and I still don't what them running our lives. I see no reason why fabricated illogical rules that they make should not be thrown out in favor of fair equitable and reasonable rules. There is no reason for such arbitrary rules to prevail in society at large, and the necessary rules should be enforced on all equally. If you wondered what happened to this high minded bunch of snots. Take a drive down the interstate or other major roads and drive the speed limit Then notice what fraction of the luxury cars go flying past at 10, 15, 20+ over the speed limit. There are not that many luxury cars out there but they are over represented in the speeding class. Now if you happen to own a luxury car and drive by the rules of the road, this does not apply to you. Having and enjoying quality and comfort is not a sin, but flaunting ones social status just marks one as one of those snotty kids that never grew up. So it is with clothing. If you can first mandate that everyone must wear clothes and you can then afford fancier, more expensive, "in fashion" clothing, and you do so in order to show off, then you are still one of those "In Crowd" social brats who never grew up and became a real person. Nothing more that a social pharisee ("a sanctimonious, self-righteous, or hypocritical person"- from Dictionary dot com). Of course we here are pretty well aware of that as we broadly know of the leveling effect of going to a resort where everyone is naked and the "social leveling" effect that has on people

[Maverick]

Society needs to move beyond Junior High and High School. Think back to those years, back then there were the "cool kids", the "in crowds" Nobody elected them, They just manipulated others and looked down on anybody else. That clique set the societal norms in high school. They were the ones who bought the clothes and shoes and hairdos that were the "thing to have". They were the ones who exploited others, and a very high percentage of them were bullies and especially "social bullies" And these became the ones who established the definitions of what is acceptable and unacceptable, and often based on what they were able to obtain that others were not. A lot of us did not like them I certainly did not and never wanted them running our lives and I still don't what them running our lives.

Things haven't changed in my generation. The "in crowd" and the way it operated drove me even farther away. I had no desire to be in their clique. And, unfortunately, during my high school years my church was just as bad about this as, if not worse than, my high school itself. The "in crowd" affected me and it really tore up my brother emotionally. As a Christian I can't say that I hate them, but I definitely hate the way they acted. I know this is off-topic but it's something that I guess stirs up a righteous anger inside of me, as the "in crowd" and bullies have driven young people to depression and suicide.

So it is with clothing. If you can first mandate that everyone must wear clothes and you can then afford fancier, more expensive, "in fashion" clothing, and you do so in order to show off, then you are still one of those "In Crowd" social brats who never grew up and became a real person. Nothing more that a social pharisee ("a sanctimonious, self-righteous, or hypocritical person"- from Dictionary dot com). Of course we here are pretty well aware of that as we broadly know of the leveling effect of going to a resort where everyone is naked and the "social leveling" effect that has on people

I have no problem with questioning the status quo and I do that myself, all the time. What people really need is sound biblical teaching about nudity, breastfeeding, lust, etc. and not the "commonly-held" beliefs and teachings.

[jochanaan]

...I have no problem with questioning the status quo and I do that myself, all the time. What people really need is sound biblical teaching about nudity, breastfeeding, lust, etc. and not the "commonly-held" beliefs and teachings.

That's why I thank God for this Village and other sites where we can speak and study the Truth. Of course, so much of it is preaching to the choir...

[jasenj1]

The other side of the conversation is 1 Cor 10:13-33:

Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

And numerous other verses that say to live peaceably and put the interests of others above your own.

I see several responses saying the majority current Church teaching about nudity - and the societal attitude - is errant interpretation of the Bible. And I agree. Is it justified then to be "in your face" with social nudity? To be confrontational? Or is it more appropriate to work quietly to teach a "proper" attitude toward the body and let opinions and actions change slowly?

And this is within the Church. Secular society at large has an attitude about nudity. Is it more appropriate to be confrontational to influence the culture at large?

Sticky issues, IMHO, and I am reluctant to pass a negative judgement on whatever approach someone chooses.

[Bare_Truth]

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
................ 3 ......... a time to break down, and a time to build up;

5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Confrontation virtually always is linked to a degree of offense but the maturity and reasonableness of the one (or ones) confronted ought to be considered. as well as how the confrontation is handled and what wrong or burden has necessitated the confrontation. The civil rights of the African Americans were being trampled and some of the reactions that resulted were unpleasant and illegal, but there was not going to be justice without a confrontation large enough to get through the long standing injustice.

I have been in situations where someone took offense at my actions where intended to assist and prevent offense and were in the perview of my employement as a service provider (nothing to do with nudity). The problem is that offense is in the eye of the beholder. and many beholders are looking for offense in anything that they can construe as such. They often have a high opinion of how they are entitled to be treated, when in fact no such entitlement exists. Startling someone by jumping out of an alley and opening ones's trench coat to flash an uninvolved passerby really is giving an offense. Simply existing in a state of nudity in the hot tub in ones back yard is not a giving of offense and no one ought to be prosecuted for that. And if the hot tubbing nude has taken reasonable measures to reduce the possibility of such a sighhting that ought to be way more than sufficient to establish innocence. If a neighbor has a window on the second floor that looks out over the back yard next door and insists on taking offense, then there are curtains, blinds and frosted glass that they can install at their own expense to deal with that. They are not entitled to control their neighbor's private land use. If they want that sort of control let them buy the adjacent property and only rent it out to neighbors they approve of.

[Petros]

There is a power structure.

I tell you that Christian corporate worship belongs on Saturday, you tell me Sunday or nothing.

I tell you communion is truly body and blood and must be unleavened bread and grape based wine; you tell me it is symbolic and can be fruit cake with koolaid.

I tell you you need to cool it and let me mow my lawn nude; you tell me I mustn't go nude in my livingroom or go out without an undershirt.

Either of us may feel offended or have our faith shaken.

But in most circs only one of us is licensed by society to "be offended". And most of the time, whatever the issue, 'tain't me what dares to feel offended.

[Ramblinman]

...I have no problem with questioning the status quo and I do that myself, all the time. What people really need is sound biblical teaching about nudity, breastfeeding, lust, etc. and not the "commonly-held" beliefs and teachings.

That's why I thank God for this Village and other sites where we can speak and study the Truth. Of course, so much of it is preaching to the choir...

But even the choir needs a word of encouragement!

[Petros]

True enough - you don't have much of a choir if nobody ever sings out.